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Frederick the Great reveal post / discussion post 8
In the last several months, as anyone who reads this DW knows, ![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
mildred_of_midgard and selenak and I have been part of this quite frankly amazing Frederick the Great fandom, and I sort of assumed that the two people in this fandom who actually knew anything, mildred and selenak, were going to write fics for Yuletide, and I (who know nothing except what they've told me in the last several months) was going to awesomely enjoy reading them. In fact, mildred wrote a Fredersdorf fic for selenak's prompt which I betaed, but then mildred's medical issues got bad enough to interfere with her writing fic (making the beta edits would have involved a substantial amount of rewrite), and she wrote a post lamenting she wasn't going to be able to produce any yuletide fic. Meanwhile, I had two fics that I was pretty sure were from selenak, and I thought it would be a shame for her to write us fic and for her not to get any :(
So then mildred and I had this (very paraphrased) conversation (mildred_of_midgard has her own account here, and she has promised to reproduce the actual conversation in comments to this post):
me: You know, we should really write something for selenak! Now that I've read what you wrote about Fredersdorf, I think I could take a stab at her Fredersdorf prompt, if you edited and otherwise helped me out with historical stuff and also if you don't mind it being way more about music than something you would write.
mildred: YES GOD YESand also oh you sweet summer child thinking you know enough to write this. [Mildred was far FAR nicer than this in real life.] For starters, here are 3500 words [really!] of things I know for a fact you don't know about Fredersdorf.
me: ...I was clearly overoptimistic. But I can work with this. Um, also, all the creativity-generating bits of my brain are already being used for my assignment, so can you also come up with an idea for the fic and also answer all my historical questions?
mildred: Sure! While I'm thinking about this, have 2k more words of historical grounding! Ok, and here are some ideas too. In fact, here's a whole plot for you!
me: Great! *writes 4k words of the plot*
mildred and me, more-or-less in unison: You did all the hard parts!
Then mildred fixed all my extensive historical errors and was fortunately able in between various medical woes to add various parts like the entire Wilhelmine subtheme and the entire last scene, and we deleted some of my words, and then I wrote some more paragraphs about music at her request and edited some of her stuff. I estimate that I probably ended up writing ~4.5k of the final fic, and mildred ended up writing ~ 2k of it (does that sound about right?) Of course that does not count the... I have no idea how much historical consultantcy stuff mildred ended up writing in the end, but I imagine it was significantly upwards of 10k :P And of course she wrote the detailed endnotes :D It also does not count all the words written in comments to the google document where we argued things like that Fredersdorf should be more zen than mildred wanted to write him and less zen than I wanted to write him :)
Although mildred and I mostly agreed on things, I had final veto power (and I did wield it a couple of times), so any remaining problems should be thought of as mine :) I'm very curious, though, as to how evident the collaboration was, and how evident the seams were, as I think mildred and I have very different writing styles, but it went through enough editing passes and discussion that I suspect much of the differences got at least somewhat smoothed out?
Counterpoint for Two Flutes
mildred_of_midgard and selenak and I have been part of this quite frankly amazing Frederick the Great fandom, and I sort of assumed that the two people in this fandom who actually knew anything, mildred and selenak, were going to write fics for Yuletide, and I (who know nothing except what they've told me in the last several months) was going to awesomely enjoy reading them. In fact, mildred wrote a Fredersdorf fic for selenak's prompt which I betaed, but then mildred's medical issues got bad enough to interfere with her writing fic (making the beta edits would have involved a substantial amount of rewrite), and she wrote a post lamenting she wasn't going to be able to produce any yuletide fic. Meanwhile, I had two fics that I was pretty sure were from selenak, and I thought it would be a shame for her to write us fic and for her not to get any :(So then mildred and I had this (very paraphrased) conversation (
mildred_of_midgard has her own account here, and she has promised to reproduce the actual conversation in comments to this post):me: You know, we should really write something for selenak! Now that I've read what you wrote about Fredersdorf, I think I could take a stab at her Fredersdorf prompt, if you edited and otherwise helped me out with historical stuff and also if you don't mind it being way more about music than something you would write.
mildred: YES GOD YES
me: ...I was clearly overoptimistic. But I can work with this. Um, also, all the creativity-generating bits of my brain are already being used for my assignment, so can you also come up with an idea for the fic and also answer all my historical questions?
mildred: Sure! While I'm thinking about this, have 2k more words of historical grounding! Ok, and here are some ideas too. In fact, here's a whole plot for you!
me: Great! *writes 4k words of the plot*
mildred and me, more-or-less in unison: You did all the hard parts!
Then mildred fixed all my extensive historical errors and was fortunately able in between various medical woes to add various parts like the entire Wilhelmine subtheme and the entire last scene, and we deleted some of my words, and then I wrote some more paragraphs about music at her request and edited some of her stuff. I estimate that I probably ended up writing ~4.5k of the final fic, and mildred ended up writing ~ 2k of it (does that sound about right?) Of course that does not count the... I have no idea how much historical consultantcy stuff mildred ended up writing in the end, but I imagine it was significantly upwards of 10k :P And of course she wrote the detailed endnotes :D It also does not count all the words written in comments to the google document where we argued things like that Fredersdorf should be more zen than mildred wanted to write him and less zen than I wanted to write him :)
Although mildred and I mostly agreed on things, I had final veto power (and I did wield it a couple of times), so any remaining problems should be thought of as mine :) I'm very curious, though, as to how evident the collaboration was, and how evident the seams were, as I think mildred and I have very different writing styles, but it went through enough editing passes and discussion that I suspect much of the differences got at least somewhat smoothed out?
Counterpoint for Two Flutes
Re: My Englishmanm, or: Heinrich Who?
ndeed My God, why is he so charming! does sound like a man adorably in love <3
Oh, that's the least of it. Regular Lehndorff entries on Heinrich include, from the early days:
1752, December 1. Depressing supper with the Queen. In the afternoon, I stay at home and have the pleasure of spending a moment with H. What a fortune it is to have someone for whom one lives and with whom one always want to live! Time passes so very quickly with him, and only the idea of not being with him spoils this pure joy.
December 10th: While with the Queen, I manage to talk to H. who embraces me tenderly.
December 11th: At the opera, I have the pleasure of embracing my dearest H. It is he who makes the carnival beautiful for me.
(Note: The Carnival season in Berlin started already at the beginning of December.)
December 13th: Lamberg returns. I am glad, for I like him, and I know this causes happiness to the one I love. Which makes me sad, but I don't show it. For jealousy follows passion so swiftly.
December 29th: I visit the opera, and from there my dearest H. I dine alone with him. My heart feels the whole height of this pleasure as I haven't been able to enjoy it for such a long time. He comes with me to my old flat, where we celebrate stag night. (Polterabend, i.e what you usually do before a wedding.) From there, he comes with me to my new flat, where I sleep for the first time.
January 3rd. In the theatre, I see my dear H. A moment with the Queen, and then I dine with the dearest of all being whom I love so tenderly.
January 6th. The same evening, I see my dear H. Oh, one is never completely happy! I am convinced he loves me, and still I am tormented by the thought I could lose this precious heart. I was invited at Herr von Bredow's, so I briefly went there. I find a big crowd, among others a Herr von Katt, who is not the most agreeable company to me.
January 7th: Grand cour at the Queen's. I stay but a moment and then withdraw with my dear H. How much I enjoy being alone with him! What little reason I have leaves me entirely as soon as this dear creature captivates me. Why is man so weak! Without this passion, I could live as a philosopher. I spend a charming evening with him. We read. This pleasure gets interrupted by the arrival of young Lb (Lamberg?). But as I come with my dear H, I manage to be alone with him again.
January 9th. I dine with my delightful H. After dinner, he reads the tragedy Andronicus. Anything about him is interesting, and anything he does, he succeeds in. He has the gift of shattering me by his reading.
January 11th. I thought I would have to dine alone, but as I sit down at my table, my dear beloved little H. comes to visit me. He is in a charming mood. He organizes the cooking, and seems to enjoy himself. Then he reads the tragedy "Cyrus" to my delight; in short, he is charming in everything he does. I see him again at the Queen Mother's. There, I have reason for jealousy, for it seems to me he talks too tenderly with Maltzahn. This makes me sad, and I go home in a depression. I cannot sleep for the entire night, because I can't stop thinking about them. Through all this night, I had bad luck at gambling, too.
January 14th. After church, I go home and wait till it is time to attend the Queen. There, I see my charming H. Without pausing, I return with him to my flat. He dines with me in an amiable mood and is more charming than ever. My sole grief is that he could feel attracted to M. I can't help but thinking he is when I see them together, and it makes me sad.
January 18th: As this is the Prince's birthday, the court of the Queen Mother's is assembled in full. I am convinced that as many have good wishes for the prince as those where clothing on their skin. For to know him is to love him. I seek out my dear H., embrace him tenderly and await with impatience the next opportunity to be alone with him. (...) I feel something for him I haven't felt for anyone else. Sometimes I wish he was poor, so I could give him anything I have; at other times, I would be ready to do the most humble service if only that meant I could be always with him.
January 24th. To the theatre, where they have some pretty dances. At last to H. whom I love so tenderly. But I tremble at the thought he could change his mind about me. If this should happen, all the joy of the world would be as nothing. I always thought to possess this heart would be the highest happiness. But my eternal unrest proves to me that there is nothing perfect in life. The smallest kindness he shows to another robs me of all my calm. Yesterday I saw him drive away with another. I thought he'd go home to be alone with M, and was in despair. Fortunately, I saw M return only fifteen minutes later and found it he only went with him on a visit.
December 22nd. Prince Heinrich arrives in tight riding pants and beautiful like an angel for dinner.
And there you have the basic problem. Heinrich did like Lehndorff - he must have, because he didn't benefit from the relationship in a political or otherwise way and yet kept the friendship up throughout his life, and it wasn't one sided Lehndorff being there for him in times of distress, either (for example, when Lehndorff's first wife and all of his first four children have died, Heinrich is there for him) - but he also never committed himself to an exclusive romance with him which was what Lehndorff clearly wanted. Instead, he offered solely friends with benefits, while he had his favourites. (Heinrich: as openly gay as you could possibly be.) Who tended to be charismatic bastards whom he spent a lot of money on. So fast forward a decade later, is Lehndorff more chill about his prince? We're in the middle of the 7 years war, it's just two years after Hotham, and:
May 10th: Schwerin arrives, page to Prince Heinrich, the most adorable of heroes, who with the cold bloodedness of an old man and the energy of a youth has contributed so much to the happy conclusion of the battle. Little Schwerin visits me and tells me many fine traits of his master. He himself has had a horse shot underneath him, while Major Ducroit of his regiment has lost both his legs. Fortunately, my Prince was only hit by a bullet in the arm. I daresay never has the son or brother of a King been in such danger and made such a success of it as this prince. And when the battle was finished, he did not rest, but dedicated himself until 10 pm to services of humanity by distributing food and water to the wounded, and organizing their transport. One of the officers of his entourage who had lost a horse he immediately gifted with an English - I take it this is a horse? - and the entire saddle, each of his batmen with 50 Louisdor and golden watches for his pages. Thus he did not think of his own comfort but only of helping others and of rewarding the deeds of the young officers.
In 1762, when the war gets in its final year, Lehndorff is with Heinrich when Heinrich hears about the Miracle of the House of Brandenburg:
On January 31st, I arrive at Hof, a village with a beautiful House belonging to Count Zinzendorf which Prince Heinrich has chosen as his winter headquarters. Seeing this prince again is a particular pleasure for me as I had to forego this joy for the last two years. I find him full of infinite kindness towards me, and the hours I spend with him are among the most pleasant of my life. He is sick when I arrive. I spend the entire day with him and don't leave his room again until mightnight. He speaks with much interest of old times and of our youth. He sincerely wishes for an ending to this cruel war. After all hopes that the King would emerge successful from all those crisis were in vain, there is a sudden beam of hope through the death of the Empress of Russia. For this princess had been personally incensed against the King and sworn his downfall, avenging all the jokes the King has made about her to our misfortune. Her desire has been so much successful so far that the Russians were in possession of (Eastern) Prussia, Pommerania, Kolberg, parts of the Neumark and with their army in a considerable part of Silesia, and they were about to strike the final blow, when to our fortune death fell on her. Her country loses a good ruler, but we are sure to gain from this. Her successor is said to follow a very different policy. (You can say this again.) (....)
After spending 14 days with this dear Prince, I part from him again with infinite regret. He makes me beautiful presents out of porcellain. After a tender farewell, I take the route Wurzen(…)
Re: My Englishmanm, or: Heinrich Who?
...welp, I bet our Lehndorff's heart (felt) the whole height of this pleasure, together with other parts of Lehndorff! It definitely sounded like they celebrated stag night ALL NIGHT, as you would XD
Prince Heinrich arrives in tight riding pants and beautiful like an angel for dinner
AHAHA, I just snorted out loud IRL. Lehndorff is so smitten, I adore it; I also adore that he remains thus.
Re: the whole FWB set-up, maybe princes (or at least this prince) just aren't one-man men with their favourites? But anyway, indeed, there must be fic! Are there also engravings within the amassed pile of srs research?
Re: My Englishmanm, or: Heinrich Who?
Same here, especially since Heinrich really wasn't good looking, not even as a young man. He was homely at best - also small, even smaller than Fritz who wasn't tall. There's a famous anecdote about young Heinrich during one of his earliest commands in the second Silesian war motivating his men to cross a river by jumping right in despite it going to his waist or breast - reports differ - and saying "men, if I can do it, you can!". Post 7 Years War, he also due to a war wound got somewhat cross eyed, which you can see in the later portraits. Most people felt let down when they met him the first time - this wrinkly tiny man is the hero of the 7 Years War? etc. But most people also then once they started talking to him were completely charmed. (We have reports from enough non-Prussians who were in no way obliged to say anything nice about him to testify to this.) Like Big Bro, he must have had tremendous personal charisma, and charm if he cared to use it.
maybe princes (or at least this prince) just aren't one-man men with their favourites
Most 18th century princes weren't, no matter whether they were straight, bi or gay. Two famous exceptions: Dad - i.e. FW, who was faithful to Sophia Dorothea despite the two of them having an increasingly terrible marriage, beause MISTRESSES WERE OF THE DEVIL (so he even says in his political Testament) -, and Louis XVI., husband of Marie Antoinette, who was the first French King for centuries who only had sex with his wife and had no platonic alternate favourite, either. Other than that, though, I can't think of an example if, that is, the relationship lasted longer than a few years. (For example, Joseph II was very much in love with his first wife - who did not love him, but that's another story, she was in love with his sister - and thus faithful to her, but said wife, Isabella of Parma, died young, so I'm not counting ViennaJoe among the 18th century royals who managed sexual/romantic fidelity.)
(Even outside of marriage: Madame de Pompadour was Maitresse en titre for Louis XV. until her death, but by no means his only Mistress during that time, even before physical relationships betwen them ceased.)
It resembles the status of rock star or film star Celebrities today - everyone was always offering - since sex with a prince was one way to secure income and position - so those who managed a monogamous relationship, inside or outside of marriage, were really really rare.
Engravings: I did an icon post, here.
Re: My Englishmanm, or: Heinrich Who?
"1 May 1753: the most miserable day of my life, because Prince Heinrich is leaving; I go to see him, my heart full of grief. I hurry to my dear prince, what a sorrowful meeting! I leave him without a word, I see tears pouring down his face, the dearest in the world, what a man to be worshipped, what a loss for me, I swear eternal devotion. I return to my home in sorrow and cannot sleep, I write my prince a letter.
2 May I: get a letter from him which makes me burst into tears. I jump on my horse and ride to meet him, but when I see his carriage approaching I get off and hide, otherwise my heart would have burst. I did not think that one person could be so devoted to another; in pagan times they would have made him a God.
Bear in mind that Heinrich isn't leaving the country or going to war at this point, he's just having to attend brother Fritz in Potsdam for a few days. Then again, he and Lehndorff are both in their early to mid 20s. And some of it is Rokoko emo - we're talking about an era where it was normal to sign "your devoted servant" and greet people whose guts you hated with "my dear, most honored cousin and brother", and where the male code of conduct was not just okay with tears, they were expected. (Seriously. Everyone turns on the waterworks all the time. This causes 19th century and 20th century editors no little embarassment.) But Lehndorff after the early crushing days and with the full awareness that his dearest of Princes was a flawed human being after all kept up the affection.
Waterworks
Re: Waterworks
It‘s interesting, though, that „men/boys don‘t cry“ is such a relatively recent development in human social conditioning. The nineteenth century has a lot to answer for, I suppose.
Re: Waterworks
Indeed. And the early twentieth century has a lot to answer for, taking romantic friendship away.
Re: Waterworks
ahahahah I mean this is Fritz
But I really like that quote too <3 Hopefully I can share it with my son when he gets older.
Re: My Englishmanm, or: Heinrich Who?
See, now you have me shipping tiny ugly (?) incredibly charismatic Prince Tightpants and his tearful worshipful Diarist Extraordinaire <3
Re: My Englishmanm, or: Heinrich Who?
Welcome! We also ship them!
Oh, by the way, here is a write-up of historians and fans no-homo-ing Fritz. It's not meant to be chronologically accurate, but it does give you an idea of the sorts of mental gymnastics people have gotten up to in defense of their fave's Chaste Prussian Manliness (TM).
Re: My Englishmanm, or: Heinrich Who?
Also, like with Fritz/Fredersdorf, it's the ship to relax with between incredibly fucked up Hohenzollern family relationships (of which Fritz 'n Heinrich certainly takes the cake in the post FW era, since Fritz' idea of self therapy included a "I'll be a slightly milder version of Dad, you'll be me" roleplay with the brother who most resembled him (which he was aware of; he did refer to Heinrich as "my other self" a few times). I think part of the appeal of Lehndorff over the years to Heinrich must have been that he was sane and kind and for all his fondness of gossip (as reflected in the diary) trustworthy. Unfortunately, those same qualities seem to also have ruled out Lehndorff as a favourite, because Heinrich's taste in boyfriends was like Fritz' taste in batmen: terrible. Granted, Lehndorff is biased for obvious reasons, but there aren't exactly dissenting voices to be heard about most of them. So, let this Lehndorff dissing of a Heinrich boyfriend be representative of the lot. The guy in question is called Reisewitz.
This man has had adventures from his childhood onwards. His father was one of the first who declared themselves for the King when our great monarch ascertained his rights in Silesia.
(that's one way to describe an invasion, Lehndorff...)
Consequently, he was a target of the Austrians' fury; his house was sacked, and he and his wife thrown into prison. Our Reisewitz, back then a child, was left to his own devices. He ended up with relations who pitied him and took him in. AFter peace was made, his father moved to Berlin, and the son, who specialized in stupid pranks, became a page to the Prince of Prussia. (Prince of Prussia: AW, Heinrich's older and Fritz' younger brother August Wilhelm.) There, he devoted himself to all the errors of youth, all kind of debaucheries became his specialty. But blind fate provided him with a very pleasant position. When Prince Heinrich formed his first household, he made Reisewitz his master of the horses. Soon, he wasted 3000 Taler for himself which the prince had given him to use for his stables. Generously, the prince forgave him, and even handed him the administration of Rheinsberg, and when he failed to live up to this task as well, the prince took Reisewitz with him as he went to war. There he behaved so utterly without discipline that the prince had no choice but to send him back here, where he could actually lead a pleasant life, if his vices didn't make him incapable of enjoying a quiet existence. He's a windbag of the first order, believes himself to know everything, and keeps trying to lead the conversation.
Re: My Englishmanm, or: Heinrich Who?
well, okay, I am totally invested in Fritz/Heinrich, not as a sexual ship but as some sort of twisted hateship...
Re: My Englishmanm, or: Heinrich Who?
ETA: In which selenak and I both simultaneously pipe up with the Fritz/Voltaire love-hateship, haha.
Re: My Englishmanm, or: Heinrich Who?
But yes, for Lehndorff, it wasn't always healthy due to the unevenness. Still, I guess that if you'd asked him in his old age when he was happily retired that if he could rewrite his life to he never gets closer to Heinrich than respectful courtier to King's younger brother whom he greets at court events now and then, would he do so, he'd have said no. I should probably say something about his relationships with his two wives - which were far better ones than the ones any Hohenzollern had with theirs and are actually good examples of how "marriage following the socially expected pattern" can work out if you're ready to treat your spouse decently. By which I don't just mean not be a jerk, but spend some time together that's not about procreation, take her part when your mother attacks her for not having as many noble ancestors as your own bloodline, laugh together, be ready to comfort when needed, that kind of thing. In neither case was it a passionate relationship, and never mind Heinrich, the ladies don't get passionate outbursts like Hotham of the few months, either, or wistful romantic thoughts like Cousin Frau von Katte, the one who got away. He didn't spontanously fall in love with either; in the first case, because his brother had died, making him the heir, and there was a war going on, the pressure to continue the family line was high, and in the second case, because all the children form the first marriage were dead, there was still the pressure to continue the line. He looked for someone pretty, gentle and from the right class, preferable with a good dowry, and found them. But he liked both women as people, and they seem to have liked him.
(With the caveat that we don't have the wives' testimonies about their marriages - maybe it would have been different from Lehndorff's diary entries, who knows?)
So these were good marriages by the standards of the day, and compared to many others around him, they were looking downright stellar. But he Comes across as having a need for romance and passion, and the great passion of his life happened to be one prince from an insane family with hidden and not so hidden issues. He wasn't as lucky as Fredersdorf in that a) Fritz definitely was ready to commit himself to Fredersdorf, if not monagamously than in terms of emotion and sharing a life together, and b) Frederdorf got the job challenge to end all job challenges out of it. (Boredom ws never one of Fredersdorf's problems!) Then again, in other respects, he was luckier - he had lots of relationships and an emotional life aside from Heinrich, his health didn't get wrecked, and eventually he had surviving children, which he definitely wanted to have. (Not just for the family line, he liked children. His first wife has kid siblings whom Lehndorff spends time with for playing and teaching, and he's also good with AW's kids when he sees them.)
If Fredersdorf and Lehndorff weren't so trustworthy and discreet about their problematic faves, though, Lehndorff's canonical visit at Fredersdorf's could totally be an occasion for them to share a bottle and empathize about being in love with Hohenzollerns who a) get a kick out of playing emotional power games with each other, and b) have a thing for charismatic bastards!
Re: My Englishmanm, or: Heinrich Who?
Without having read more than what you've so kindly shared with us, I agree.
Fritz definitely was ready to commit himself to Fredersdorf, if not monagamously than in terms of emotion and sharing a life together
<333
and b) Frederdorf got the job challenge to end all job challenges out of it. (Boredom ws never one of Fredersdorf's problems!)
Good lord, no! Whatever Fredersdorf's secret diary looks like, it doesn't contain the words, "I wish I were EC's chamberlain because Fritz is so boring and EC is so exciting." :-PP
If Fredersdorf and Lehndorff weren't so trustworthy and discreet about their problematic faves, though, Lehndorff's canonical visit at Fredersdorf's could totally be an occasion for them to share a bottle and empathize about being in love with Hohenzollerns who a) get a kick out of playing emotional power games with each other, and b) have a thing for charismatic bastards!
Ha! Well, we did write Heinrich and Franz Stephan sharing a bottle and trying to hook up the one's brother with the other's son during the Seven Years' War, complete with cameo from ghost!Philippe d'Orleans, so...stranger things have happened!
R/l Fredersdorf, though, no, I don't see him spilling the beans about Fritz either. It's good to have trusty SOs and friends with benefits. <3
That was also a nice write-up of Lehndorff and his wives, thank you.
Re: My Englishmanm, or: Heinrich Who?
Fair enough, I do concur with you (and mildred) about that.
I do love his relationship with his wives, and I agree that it shows him as a fundamentally decent human being (well, as far as we can tell), and it certainly stands in contrast to all of the Hohenzollern, sigh.
take her part when your mother attacks her for not having as many noble ancestors as your own bloodline
Awwwww! Go Lehndorff! <3
Then again, in other respects, he was luckier - he had lots of relationships and an emotional life aside from Heinrich, his health didn't get wrecked, and eventually he had surviving children, which he definitely wanted to have.
Huhhhhhh. Until you said that, I didn't think about the possibility Fredersdorf's wrecked health may have been due at least partially to his job. I mean, talk about a high stress job environment! Of course, as mildred likes to remind us, it's not like people didn't have plenty of reasons for having poor health in those days, including the terrible medical care -- but the accumulated stress over years of this can't have helped, and I wouldn't be surprised if it hurt him as well. Man, no wonder he wanted to retire after twenty years of this.
(Not just for the family line, he liked children. His first wife has kid siblings whom Lehndorff spends time with for playing and teaching, and he's also good with AW's kids when he sees them.)
Awwwww, this makes me like him even more :D
Lehndorff and children
I find he's much more amiable when Count Borck isn't around him. The prince is one of those shy beings whose trust one has to win through loving behavior and not through harshness, the way Count Borck does it. I have much affection for this prince. I venerated his father, and thus the son will always be dear to me.
As for his own kids, two bookends:
January 10th 1760: As I get dressed this morning, an urgent messenger brings me the news that my wife has born a son. While this event fills me with supreme joy, I am afraid the child will not live, for it has been born fourteen days too early at least. At once, I hasten to the Countess Camas, who advises me to depart as quickly as possible. (...)
January 11th ff: Without any interruption, I arrive at 6 pm in Magdeburg. The first thing I hear is that the child is so weak that it has been given an emergency baptism. He was named Friedrich Ahasverus Heinrich. I visit my wife, and when they bring me the child I take it into my arms with the greatest joy of the world. In such moments, very strange emotions overwhelm one. I would never have believed it possible that you can feel such intense affection for such poor little creature. For three days, I indulged in the joy of looking at him about a thousand times, and wanted to do nothing but make plans for his future and watch it. But all my hopes were of a short endurance. One morning, they woke me up and told me that the child was dying, and not an hour later, he was dead. I am so unhappy about this that I can't enjoy anything. The poor child, so beautiful and well proportioned, will be buried here in Magdeburg in the Heilig Geist Kirche in a coffin clad in red velved with silver tresses.
For contrast, a joyful entry, which is Lehndorff, after having finally resigned as EC's chamberlain, five dead children, one dead wife and a living second wife (their first shared child died as well, alas, no.5 for him) later, returning home to his estate in 1777 when:
As I climb up the stairs, a pretty boy rushes towards me. While I wonder who he could be, a cry tells me it is my son. This child, who had been so thin and sick that I gave him to Doctor Muzelius and then to my dear niece in Halle for treatment, has changed so much within the last six months that I did not know him at first. I cannot describe my joy. It is as if my soul became one with the child's, so happy did I feel.
Re: Lehndorff and children
Oh, FFS, Fritz. If Catt is to be trusted at all, you specifically said that *you* have to be won over with positive reinforcement, and that you try to mend your ways to live up to praise, whereas attacking you just makes your faults worse. And of course the "if they had raised me instead of humiliating me, I would be a better person" line that I keep quoting.
Fritz, why must you be so good at insights and so bad at applying them?
ETA: But also "awww" about Lehndorff.
Re: Lehndorff and children
Added to which, he seems to have done a good paternal/avuncular job with Henricus Minor and Wihelmine Minor... but then FW had been a far better father to AW as well. Seems the mutual positive feedback loop strikes again. Future FW2 was the successor with all the expectations that carried, Henricus Minor was not, and of course Wilhelmine Minor wasn't, either. And as Hohenzollerns went, FW2 was avarage, which might have been a disappointment of its own. He wasn't stupid, but he didn't have the eagerness for knowledge Fritz and most of his siblings had (though how much of this was due to it being forced down his throat as a toddler, who knows - I mean, if you're given a top mathematician (Beguilin) as a teacher on Maupertuis' advice when you're four years old, and you're not the scholarly equivalent of Mozart, you're not going to deliver good school results). And he was just okay as a military man, either. Considering the last time Fritz took over the education of a younger relation, this had been Henricus Major who for all their difficulties then delivered on both the hunger for knowledge and the military talent front, it must have felt like a let down.
I wouldn't be surprised if poor future FW2 made him extra angry for being what FW1 had thought Fritz would be - more interested in girlfriends and fun than hard work as a teen and young man, open to the influence of of people flattering him. (Hence Fritz eventually caving and acknowledging Wilhelmine Encke as Prussia's first maitresse en titre since F1's days, because she at least had no political interests and provided FW2 with affection without seeming to want anything but a secure position and comfort out of it.) It's as if being given a distorted portrait - this is how your father saw you - which makes for extra anger.
BTW, Borck the strict Steward/governor eventually lost Fritz' favour and got fired. Why? Because he'd told young FW that his key principle as a ruler should be: "A state can be made happier through the preservation of peace than through the conduct of a successful war." This in the year 1763, I kid you not.
Re: Lehndorff and children
Oooff, you're right. Wow this whole family is fucked up. Fritz, your decision not to have kids was one of your best. Please see that through in practice and not have de facto kids.
BTW, Borck the strict Steward/governor eventually lost Fritz' favour and got fired. Why? Because he'd told young FW that his key principle as a ruler should be: "A state can be made happier through the preservation of peace than through the conduct of a successful war." This in the year 1763, I kid you not.
Yep, I was actually planning to bring this up. Look, if Wilhelmine isn't allowed to say it, Borck, you're sure as hell not.
Crown Prince Fritz is, but King Fritz has selective amnesia. RHIP.
Re: Lehndorff and children
Heh. Is he really, or is he sufficiently both perceptive and unselfaware that he doesn't realize that's what it is? (not gonna lie, his lovely & acute perceptivity combined with hilarious unselfawareness is honestly what I love best about him, so that's clearly going to be my vote)
The prince is one of those shy beings whose trust one has to win through loving behavior and not through harshness, the way Count Borck does it.
<3 I can totally believe Lehndorff was a great dad <33
I cannot describe my joy. It is as if my soul became one with the child's, so happy did I feel.
<33333333
Fredersdorf and stress
Armchair Psychologist Mildred is here to weigh in. :D
So if you look at the literature on the effects of job stress on health, they're actually pretty counterintuitive. The high-powered overachievers at the top with the most job responsibilities have the fewest stress-related health problems; the people lower down, whose jobs appear easier, are more likely to have stress-related health problems.
And the key criteria appear to be:
1) How much control do you have in your job over the things that matter to you?
2) How secure do you feel in your job?
3) How much are you used as a punching bag by the people above you?
People at the bottom of the totem pole, who have to do what they're told and don't have much input in how things are done, live in fear of losing their jobs, and have to put up with verbal abuse, are quietly way more stressed and unhealthy than the people who juggle a whole bunch of responsibilities at once and whose work demands look far more impressive to the casual observer.
So if we judge Fredersdorf's job by those criteria, I'm actually not sure Fredersdorf comes off as a likely candidate for job stress. Of course, I wasn't ever in his shoes, and we don't have his very secret diary, but he strikes me as one of the people who the layperson thinks should be very stressed but the research doesn't back it up.
Heinrich, yes, Heinrich lives in fear of being scapegoated à la AW. Heinrich doesn't have control over the things that matter to him (see
But if Fredersdorf is quietly afraid of losing his job if he's ever less than perfect, then that's possible, but I have no evidence for it. If Fritz is taking out his temper on Fredersdorf when they're alone, then that's possible, but I have no evidence for it. If Fredersdorf is silently seething over how Fritz mismanages things and he could do a better job if he were given a free hand, then that's possible, but I have no evidence for it.
What I do have evidence for is Fredersdorf being near the top of the totem pole, having more independence of action than most people in Prussia under Fritz, and above all, taking on more responsibilities outside of work by choice, such as alchemy and management of his estate at Zernikow (which he could have delegated far more of than he did). This suggests he didn't feel work was using up every moment of his available time and that he had to stress about getting everything perfect or he would lose his job. This suggests he had time and energy left over, and also that he was a high-powered overachiever who actually liked working, and enjoyed the challenge.
Also, even further down the totem pole, having something you're invested in outside of work offers a protective effect against work-related stress. It gives you a chance to have positive emotional experiences and keeps work from becoming your whole life. These people have fewer stress-related health problems, as a demographic, than people who are wholly at the mercy of their work-related emotions.
So...I actually vote against the evidence being for Fredersdorf fitting the profile of someone whose health is run down by work. There are unknowns, but I'd like to think there was enough trust between him and Fritz that he didn't live in fear of being scapegoated, and that he was spared the worst of Fritz's abuse. And there wasn't really anyone else he answered to in the hierarchy.
Now, *alchemy* as the cause of some of Fredersdorf's health problems and eventually perhaps his death is a very interesting hypothesis...
Re: Fredersdorf and stress
That is a very good point, especially about Zernikow and the non-delegation of same. (As opposed to completely reorganizing it and turning it into a floroushing estate.)It's also worth noting that Lehndorff - who does have solid ideas about class - despite his "fading looks" conduct also records being impressed by Fredersdorf's intelligence and graceful conduct. Highly stressed individuals, especially if they also physically ill, aren't known to be charming and graceful in conversation with younger court officials far below them in the hierarchy, even post retirement. Fredersdorf keeping his even temper till the end would also argue for him having lived more or less the life he wanted, with it bringing out the best in him.
Re: Fredersdorf and stress
This is also an excellent point. The whole study on stress and hierarchy is that stressed middle managers being punched down on from above are more likely to transfer stress down. If not deliberately aggressively, then in an "OMG I'm losing my mind" frantic kind of way. Not be charmingly and gracefully chill.
I'm glad. I'm glad all the evidence points toward Fredersdorf getting to live his best life, at least insofar as the 18th century permitted. <3
See, cahn? He is zen! :D My perception of him is less zen in the beginning, when the only data he's got is "huge class differences" and "FW is a bloodthirsty maniac," and increasingly zen as time went on and he and Fritz got into a good mutual positive feedback loop.
Admittedly, there is another stress personality profile that I haven't mentioned, the "people-pleasing suffering-in-silence dying-inside" profile, and those people do end up gracious and charming to those below them and prone to stress-related disease, but it just doesn't seem to fit what we know of Fredersdorf's personality or situation.
EC would be a better fit, but I like to hope that, even if she was unhappy about the overall structure of her situation, her day-to-day Fritz-free life was calm and reasonably fulfilling. Maybe especially as time went on and she learned to adjust to it and build a life that didn't revolve around her disappointed hopes.
Re: Fredersdorf and stress
I was also clearly projecting a bit, because my sister is absolutely the "people-pleasing suffering-in-silence dying-inside" sort and the stress has caught up with her. (She's in therapy for all of this, which has helped the mental issues but the physical ones are unfortunately harder to deal with.)
(Connecting back to that post on your DW a while back, she absolutely fits the profile you talked about there: "I'm having tentative thoughts that given environmental stressors and/or after drawing the short straw with regard to mental health genes, people who put other people's needs first are less likely to perpetuate the cycle of abuse and more likely to end up crippled by anxiety/depression/self-esteem problems.")
Anyway, I'm very glad that this doesn't seem to be the case for Fredersdorf! (Although I wish he could have been healthier, sigh. Stop mucking around with mercury, Fredersdorf!)
Re: Fredersdorf and stress
Re: Fredersdorf and stress
Re: Fredersdorf and stress