cahn: (Default)
cahn ([personal profile] cahn) wrote2019-12-02 02:27 pm
Entry tags:

Frederick the Great, discussion post 6

...I think we need another one (seriously, you guys, this is THE BEST) and I'd better make it now before I disappear into the wilds of music performance.

(also, as of this week there are two Frederician fics in the yuletide archive and eeeeeeeeeee)
(huh, only one of them is actually tagged with Frederick the Great even though two with Maria Theresia and Wilhelmine, eeeeeee this is awesome I CAN'T WAIT)

Frederick the Great masterpost
selenak: (Default)

Re: Fredersdorf letters

[personal profile] selenak 2019-12-08 11:01 am (UTC)(link)
Letter excerpts, first from Fredersdorf, since we already had some from Fritz and since it illustrates, as mentioned above, the sheer variety of what he's responsible for. I don't know whether either of you is familiar with Iron Man, but basically: reading this, I've come to the conclusion that Fredersdorf is Pepper Potts.

Spy stuff: "Geheimrat Eichel has sent me the promised new cyphres this afternoon. According to his desire I've translated from No.4 so he can see that "the man" is no liar. Marked explicitly (where I left of) so that whoever continues translating in the future can't miss it. Have paid the full 100 Gulden for April to "the man"."

re: Widow and daughter of dead Keyserling:

As your royal majesty has ordered, I've given 1000 Taler for little Keyserling to her mother. The mother was deeply touched by your remembrance, and the little replica talks and talks like a rattle, she is the image of the original, delightful and vivacious.

re: placing of courtiers - that's the one I already mentioned:

The entourage of her Majesty the Queen Mother and of Princess Amalie amounts to 45 people. I've given the names to the chatelaine of Charlottenburg so everyone knows where they'll sleep, and when to arrive. Her Majesty the Queen humbly asks whether your royal Majesty allows her to come as well. Her entourage consists of five people.

re: managing opera singers, at the end of a longer tale of Gasparini vs Astrua:

...(Gasparini) asks for a six months vacation in order to bring her daughter to Italy. She also asks for her salary to be advanced for said six months. She swears that she'll return, as she's an honest woman. She's reading to put this in writing. Talking to theatre people one after another feels like being among kettles banging!

(Fritz: Gasparini will have to be concent with a five months vacation, but only after signing her contract!)

Clothing ordering for Fritz, apropos the planned journey to Bayreuth to attend the wedding of Wilhelmine's daughter (he had to cancel due to sickness at the last minute and sent Heinrich instead). I include this because it's a further demonstration against the "he only wore uniform ever post ascension to the throne" image and because the sheer opulence is so very 18th century:

Fritz: Before my trip to Bayreuth, I need two new suits. Blue velvet, gold threaded, with silver vest and gold threaded buttons, the second soft blue without velved but gold threaded, a vest in citrus yellow with silver buttons. How much will each cost?

(That he ordered his wedding suits - which were delivered - and changed his plans really at the last moment belies, btw, some biographer's theory that he didn't really want to go to the wedding and just pretended to be sick.)

When Wilhelmine is in Berlin in the autumn of 1750, she's not the only one who caught the flu. So did Chacot and SD:

"I'm glad that my sister and Chacot are bette. I hope the Queen Mother is not seriously affected.

I will be in Berlin at the 21st around 12:00. If my sister is well and it is convenient to her, I'll have lunch with her. If it is trouble to her, I will stay at home and will visit her and the Queen Mother in the afternoon in Monbijou. God keep you!"


And lastly, one of the typical health worry/love letters. Fritz is chiding Fredersdorf for insisting to get up before he's completely recovered. Unfortunately, a translation can't provide the sheer immediacy of the informal slang German (for example, he doesn't write "sterben" when I translate "you'll die", he writes "so gehest du drauf", for which the modern equivalent would be "then you'll kick the bucket!":

"I thought you loved me and wouldn't want to cause me grief by killing yourself. Now I don't know what to believe! But you must believe I only want what's best for you and that the diet and the medicine is only prescribed so you can recover your health again. I beg you, listen to me, and remember you promised me! Please recall Rothenburg who killed himself by infecting himself with podagra through drinking Hungarian wine and eating a hot soup. Your illness is no laughing matter, and if you don't follow a correct diet and take the right prescribed medicine, you'll die! Think about how this would grieve me! If you love me, then listen exactly to the prescriptions! God keep you! Don't write back!"
Edited 2019-12-08 12:07 (UTC)
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)

Re: Fredersdorf letters

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard 2019-12-08 09:56 pm (UTC)(link)
whether either of you is familiar with Iron Man, but basically: reading this, I've come to the conclusion that Fredersdorf is Pepper Potts.

This should come as a total shock to everyone, since I don't think I've gotten any of your references so far, but I have actually seen the first Iron Man movie! (Because it came out during the 2-year period in my life in which I would actually watch a few things.)

In conclusion, I agree completely. That is also my picture of the Fritz/Fredersdorf relationship.

Her Majesty the Queen humbly asks whether your royal Majesty allows her to come as well.

Do we know if he does?

"I'm glad that my sister and Chacot are bette. I hope the Queen Mother is not seriously affected.

See, this is why I'm more surprised when someone *isn't* sick.

"I thought you loved me and wouldn't want to cause me grief by killing yourself. Now I don't know what to believe!

I see his "get well soon" letters are exactly like his "condolence" letters.

To be fair to Fritz, as I've pointed out, this is exactly how they pulled him out of his emotional collapse post-Katte's execution. He's doing the best he can with what he has here.

remember you promised me!

Awww. <33333333 these two 4ever.

Please recall Rothenburg who killed himself by infecting himself with podagra through drinking Hungarian wine and eating a hot soup.

Also remember Hephaistion, who killed himself by drinking a whole beaker of wine and eating a whole chicken while he was infected with typhoid (maybe). You don't want me to go all Alexander the Great going all Achilles over your corpse, do you?

Don't write back!

Zomg, can you give me the number of this letter? I need to see this with my own eyes.

Oh, man, you are the BEST. Thank you SO much for all these write-ups of German sources.
selenak: (Tony Stark by Gettingdrastic)

Re: Fredersdorf letters

[personal profile] selenak 2019-12-09 07:42 am (UTC)(link)
In conclusion, I agree completely. That is also my picture of the Fritz/Fredersdorf relationship.

As I don't have a Pepper Potts Icon, I shall have to honor our agreement with a Tony Stark icon.

Incidentally, re: Keyserling's orphaned baby daughter (called Adelaide), according to Editor, Fritz was the godfather, not just nominally but he held her while she was baptized (so I guess Caesarion was the cause for at least one church visit? Not what FW had in mind, but hey), and he really took that relationship seriously.

(Another baby held by Fritz in order to get baptized, standing in for the actual far away godfather that time: Heinrich. Yes, really. Wilhelmine had held baby AW four years earlier.)

Do we know if he does?

Fritz doesn't adress that question in his reply letter at all, which is mostly about the salaries for singers Astrua (female) and Salimbeni (male and one of the most famous castrato singers in Europe at the time). The subsequent letters don't directly adress this, either, though Fritz says "50 or 60 people, I don't care" re: the ball in Charlottenburg, he's more interested Federsdorf negotiating the singer salaries down somewhat.

ETA: It just occured to me: when Lehndorff says that EC is "arrogant towards those lower than her, but submissive towards anyone close to the King", he probably means "she bosses me around as if she was my boss, and me a nobleman, too, while she's "humbly" asking Fredersdorf the commoner to intercede for her with the King when she wants something!" /end of ETA

Zomg, can you give me the number of this letter? I need to see this with my own eyes.

The letter, No. 102, starts at the bottom of page 185, and is dated February 22nd 1752. The passage I just quoted is from page 186.


Edited 2019-12-09 07:46 (UTC)
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)

Re: Fredersdorf letters

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard 2019-12-09 08:09 pm (UTC)(link)
The letter, No. 102, starts at the bottom of page 185, and is dated February 22nd 1752. The passage I just quoted is from page 186.

ZOMG, 7 exclamation points in the letter. ROFL. This is one stressed out father figure BFF. <33

Thank you so much for this, as always.
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)

Re: Fredersdorf letters

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard 2019-12-10 05:19 am (UTC)(link)
Oh, this whole letter <33333333

I know, I loooove that "Don't write back!" was written by the same man who wrote, "Come to the window, I want to see you; but keep the window shut and make sure there's a strong fire in your room." Little hearts forever.