cahn: (Default)
cahn ([personal profile] cahn) wrote2019-12-02 02:27 pm
Entry tags:

Frederick the Great, discussion post 6

...I think we need another one (seriously, you guys, this is THE BEST) and I'd better make it now before I disappear into the wilds of music performance.

(also, as of this week there are two Frederician fics in the yuletide archive and eeeeeeeeeee)
(huh, only one of them is actually tagged with Frederick the Great even though two with Maria Theresia and Wilhelmine, eeeeeee this is awesome I CAN'T WAIT)

Frederick the Great masterpost
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)

Re: Our Insane Family: The Prequel Years

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard 2019-12-05 01:55 am (UTC)(link)
Incidentally, so what do you think we have here?

Ahahaha, I'm flattered that you think I have anything to contribute, just like I'm flattered you thought I could make sense of the Marwitz letters.

I agree it's far from impossible that Trenck might have been up to *something* for the Austrians. He's always given off shady vibes for me, but, you know, innocent until proven guilty.

I kinda doubt it was *just* Fritz lusting after him. I feel like he had grounds of suspicion (if only in his own head) for Amalie, spying, or both, to get that kind of reaction. But who knows?

*throws up hands*

he thought Trenck the bragger wouldn't be able to resist bringing up Amalie. And regardless of how much or little Fritz felt for his youngest sister at that point, that would have wrecked her marriage chances for good.

This makes perfect sense.

Question: If Wilhelmine hadn't already been married when FW died, would Fritz have married her off?

Remember when we we were discussing the "FW retires to a religious hermit life" AU? And my gut reaction was "I have to imagine step 1 is: Fritz summons Wilhelmine to court for Very Important Reasons and just never lets her go again"? That's still my gut reaction to what happens if Wilhelmine is unmarried when Fritz inherits at whatever age. My guess is Wilhelmine, honorary man that she is, falls into the category of beloved friends who he will be very unhappy about if they start showing interest in being married to anyone except *him*. I mean, unless you think there's a political alliance that Fritz both could have gotten through her and would have wanted badly enough...he *could* be ruthless as king and override his personal wishes. But I think it would take a lot. And as you say, 30+ year-old Wilhelmine doesn't have kings falling all over themselves for her face or her childbearing prospects. I say Fritz keeps her.

FW: Uncle Fritz, watch me show of the education you gave me. "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion."

Fritz: Dear Charlotte, it's all our idiot nephew's fault for neglecting his wife's charms, I mean, what kind of royal bastard does that to his wife?


Elisabeth: fuck you, Mom, for not taking me back. Hohenzollern are the worst, forever and ever.

+1
selenak: (Default)

Re: Our Insane Family: The Prequel Years

[personal profile] selenak 2019-12-05 07:15 am (UTC)(link)
...and now that I'm reading Lehndorf's diary, I just came across an entry where he's all "our princes are the best! I mean, the Saxons are dumb as nails, Wüttemberg, eh, Palatinate, haven't produced anything interesting in the last century, Braunschweigs I guess I have so say are alright, seeing whom I'm nominally working for, but I immediately add saying they're alright because they're so closely related to ours that you can't judge them as a separate entity, but how wonderful,how superior to all other Germans are the Hohenzollerns!"

Look, I know you've got it bad for Heinrich, Lehndorf, and you're still hoping Fritz will promote you from his wife's Hhousehold into his own, but SERIOUSLY? That's patriotism gone too far.
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)

Re: Our Insane Family: The Prequel Years

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard 2019-12-05 07:27 am (UTC)(link)
I mean, *I* always thought the Hohenzollerns were the best, from my safe popcorn-munching remove, but if you have to *live* with them? Hell no, that's crazy talk.

It's like that ancient Chinese German curse goes: may you live with an interesting family.

(Wikipedia tells me it's not actually Chinese.)

ETA: Oh, and in case it's not obvious to [personal profile] cahn (forgive me if it is), "Braunschweig" is "Brunswick" in English.
Edited 2019-12-05 07:30 (UTC)
selenak: (Default)

Re: Our Insane Family: The Prequel Years

[personal profile] selenak 2019-12-05 01:11 pm (UTC)(link)
may you live with an interesting family.

Precisely. so, when EC finally seems to lose her patience and reminds Lehnsdorff that his job description isn't "crushing on Prince Heinrich" or "hanging out with the divine trio" and he's supposed to attend her more, and he's mentally all "yeah, but you're boring!", I on the one hand can see where he's coming from: EC is bound to be more dull than Hohenzollern drama. And I know whom I'd rather read about if I must choose. But on the other hand: for God's sake and for the sake of your emotional and mental health, Lehnsdorff, treasure what you have! EC is nice! It's easy money!

(Of course, it doesn't help that when he took the job he did so under the delusion he'd see lots of the King whom he's very curious about and wants to serve directly. Naturally, then he has to find out that working for the Queen is a guarantee to see as little of the King as possible.)
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)

Re: Our Insane Family: The Prequel Years

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard 2019-12-05 06:26 pm (UTC)(link)
Ahahahaha, Lehndorff, I get you. But there is a difference between "these are the most interesting princes" and "these are the best princes and why aren't the others more like them."
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)

Lehndorff

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard 2019-12-05 07:44 am (UTC)(link)
Also, Lehndorff fell in love with an English aristocrat, Sir. Charles Hotham, and wanted to join him in England. But as a Prussian, he had to ask the King's permission to leave the country. Fritz said no. "I cry, and I cry, and I cry," Lehndorff writes. No reason given for the refusal, but I think we all know the real reason is: "If *I* can't go to England with my lover, *nobody* gets to go to England with their lover."

So I knew the name Hotham was ringing a bell, and I thought I recognized it from the English double marriage negotiations. Sure enough, it was Sir Charles Hotham, 5th Baronet of Scorborough, who makes so many appearances in Wilhelmine's memoirs as the English envoy, and who in the end fails to convince FW to let Fritz and Wilhelmine to marry their cousins. Judging by the dates, Lehndorff's Sir Charles Hotham must have been the 8th baronet, the nephew of the 5th, bearing the same name.

Oh, Fritz.
selenak: (Default)

Re: Lehndorff

[personal profile] selenak 2019-12-05 01:21 pm (UTC)(link)
:( Yeah, this.

On a more cheerful note, must share this latest detail: remember when I mentioned Wilhelmine had composed an opera version of Voltaire's play Semiramis (that he shopped around for a while before it could get staged)? What the content was?

Now, see below, in 1753, SD got the premiere performance of her son's opera "Sulla" for her Birthday. In 1754... she gets Wilhelmine's "Semiramis".

Writes Lehndorff: "What a strange choice for a birthday celebration. The opening image is that of a tomb, and it is about a son murdering his mother in revenge."

Fritz uses his younger siblings for self therapy. Wilhelmine clearly uses operas. That is so marvellously passive-aggressive, I have no words. And of course lost on Lehnsdorff entirely.
selenak: (Default)

Re: Lehndorff

[personal profile] selenak 2019-12-06 12:38 pm (UTC)(link)
Amalie: *high fives Big Sis*
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)

Re: Our Insane Family: The Prequel Years

[personal profile] mildred_of_midgard 2019-12-05 09:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Letting people go: not Fritz's strong point. I mean, kicking them to the curb, yes. But letting them out of arm's reach when he still wants them? That's in Interpersonal Relations 102, which he never even got through the 101 course.