Frederick the Great, discussion post 6

[cahn]

...I think we need another one (seriously, you guys, this is THE BEST) and I'd better make it now before I disappear into the wilds of music performance.

(also, as of this week there are two Frederician fics in the yuletide archive and eeeeeeeeeee)
(huh, only one of them is actually tagged with Frederick the Great even though two with Maria Theresia and Wilhelmine, eeeeeee this is awesome I CAN'T WAIT)

Frederick the Great masterpost

Comments

What do Prussian Kings want?

[selenak]

So, Dad was a bit embarassed of me
he was just somewhat embarassing to look at

*grimace*

Trust you to catch that. When I learned about F1 being dropped as a baby and as a result spending his life with a broken shoulder, being called "der schiefe Fritz" by his people, I thought that illustrates how you can never trust court paintings, among so many other things. Him being on such bad terms with his father that he wanted a guarantee he wouldn't get murdered the last time he visited him was a non-surprise, too.

And he *wanted* better quality relationships, including with various members of his family (not including EC), and couldn't always figure out how.

(From your reply to my Heinrich comment in the earlier post.)

This is as good a place as any to discuss this: what did he want out of his family relationships? I mean, emotionally; the political aspects - AW as crown prince, the sisters as useful for alliances, Heinrich turning out to be a gifted general and diplomat - are clear and would have been there for any King of and in Prussia, they weren't Fritz specific. Since he must have figured out rather early on he would not have children of his own, did he see them - given the huge age gap between him and the younger ones especially - mostly as the kids he wouldn't have and wanted them to treat him as a replacement father (only better)? Did he seek out the kind of companionship he had with Wilhelmine when they were children and tried to recreate it with them? Both? Either? What?

Re: What do Prussian Kings want?

[mildred_of_midgard]

Trust you to catch that.

:D cahn can tell you from our Tillerman discussions, cross-referencing is a strong point of mine.

what did he want out of his family relationships? I mean, emotionally;

Oh, boy. This is probably not something that has a simple answer. The first thing that comes to mind is that his taking over their education is probably exactly him trying to be a replacement father, only better. I mean, aside from his convictions about education being objectively necessary, he was giving them something he'd had to fight for, and I think he expected gratitude in return. Furthermore, he was an inveterate advice-giver to all and sundry, and I think he had good intentions there even when completely obliviousness. I think as older brother and surrogate father (and eventual uncle) he intended to graciously pass on the benefits of his hard-earned wisdom to them.

Companionship: yes, probably, especially as they got older. (Wilhelmine is a given here.) Heinrich outliving him was evidently a godsend here.

Affection: I think this was a big one. Fritz craved affection all his life and could never seem to get enough, possibly related to the number of people he did not treat in such a way as to inspire affection, or consistent affection (I am struck by the number of people who left and came back, because they found him irresistible even when dysfunctional).

And because of his control issues: not feeling threatened ever. This is, I believe, why he so thoroughly isolated them, his mother, his wife, everyone, from the center of power, and only let them approach it from a distance later on, insofar as he felt safe doing so. It is impossible to overestimate Fritz's fear of losing even a tiny bit of control.

Oh, Fritz. You can see he tried, you can see he more or less succeeded with some of the family members, but wow were some of those relationships disastrous.

Family therapy and hugs for everyone.