Entry tags:
Frederick the Great post links
More Frederick the Great (henceforth "Fritz") and surrounding spinoffs history! Clearly my purpose in life is now revealed: it is to encourage ![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
mildred_of_midgard and selenak to talk to me about Frederick the Great and associated/tangential European history. I am having such a great time here! Collating some links in this post:
* selenak's post on Frederick the Great as a TV show with associated fandom; a great place to start for the general history
* I have given up indexing all posts, here is the tag of discussion posts. Someday when I actually have time maybe I'll do a "best of."
Some links that have come up in the course of this discussion (and which I am putting here partially for my own benefit because in particular I haven't had time to watch the moviesbecause still mainlining Nirvana in Fire):
Fritz' sister Wilhelmine's tell-all tabloidy memoirs (English translation); this is Part I; the text options have been imperfectly OCR'd so be aware of that (NOTE 11-6-19: THIS IS A BOWDLERIZED TEXT, I WILL COME BACK WITH A BETTER LINK)
Part II of Wilhelmine's memoirs (English translation)
A dramatization of Frederick the Great's story, English subtitles
Mein Name ist Bach, Movie of Frederick the Great and J.S. Bach, with subtitles Some discussion of the subtitles in the thread here (also scroll down)
2017 miniseries about Maria Theresia, with subtitles and better translation of one scene in comments
ETA:
Miniseries of Peter the Great, IN ENGLISH, apparently reasonably historically solid
ETA 10-22-19
Website with letters from and to Wilhelmine during her 1754/1755 journey through France and Italy, as well as a few letters about Wilhelmine, in the original French, in a German translation, and in facsimile
University of Trier site where the full works of Friedrich in the original French and German have been transcribed, digitized, and uploaded:
30 volumes of writings and personal correspondence
46 volumes of political correspondence
Fritz and Wilhelmine's correspondence (vol 27_1)
ETA 10-28-19
Der Thronfolger (German, no subtitles; explanation of action in the comment here)
ETA 11-6-19
Memoirs of Stanisław August Poniatowski, dual Polish and French translation
ETA 1-14-20
Our Royal Librarian Mildred has collated some documentation, including google translate versions of the Trier letters above (see the "Correspondence" folder)!
mildred_of_midgard and selenak to talk to me about Frederick the Great and associated/tangential European history. I am having such a great time here! Collating some links in this post:* selenak's post on Frederick the Great as a TV show with associated fandom; a great place to start for the general history
* I have given up indexing all posts, here is the tag of discussion posts. Someday when I actually have time maybe I'll do a "best of."
Some links that have come up in the course of this discussion (and which I am putting here partially for my own benefit because in particular I haven't had time to watch the movies
Fritz' sister Wilhelmine's tell-all tabloidy memoirs (English translation); this is Part I; the text options have been imperfectly OCR'd so be aware of that (NOTE 11-6-19: THIS IS A BOWDLERIZED TEXT, I WILL COME BACK WITH A BETTER LINK)
Part II of Wilhelmine's memoirs (English translation)
A dramatization of Frederick the Great's story, English subtitles
Mein Name ist Bach, Movie of Frederick the Great and J.S. Bach, with subtitles Some discussion of the subtitles in the thread here (also scroll down)
2017 miniseries about Maria Theresia, with subtitles and better translation of one scene in comments
ETA:
Miniseries of Peter the Great, IN ENGLISH, apparently reasonably historically solid
ETA 10-22-19
Website with letters from and to Wilhelmine during her 1754/1755 journey through France and Italy, as well as a few letters about Wilhelmine, in the original French, in a German translation, and in facsimile
University of Trier site where the full works of Friedrich in the original French and German have been transcribed, digitized, and uploaded:
30 volumes of writings and personal correspondence
46 volumes of political correspondence
Fritz and Wilhelmine's correspondence (vol 27_1)
ETA 10-28-19
Der Thronfolger (German, no subtitles; explanation of action in the comment here)
ETA 11-6-19
Memoirs of Stanisław August Poniatowski, dual Polish and French translation
ETA 1-14-20
Our Royal Librarian Mildred has collated some documentation, including google translate versions of the Trier letters above (see the "Correspondence" folder)!
Royal obsessions
So he had this regiment called the Potsdam Giants, for which the only qualification was being tall. The taller you were, the better you got paid. It was pretty much FW's goal to have every tall man in Europe in his regiment, voluntarily or involuntarily.
One of the kidnapping stories goes something like this: some tall guy in some country that wasn't Prussia got tricked into lying down inside a chest in a store/workshop/something to settle a bet on how wide the chest was. Bang! went the lid, and the guy was shipped off to Potsdam inside the chest. (I've also heard that he arrived DOA because of lack of airholes, not sure if any of this is true.)
Other things FW's been accused of that I personally always put a mental question mark next to, until I find good evidence:1) Putting soldiers on the rack to make them even taller. 2) Eugenics, breeding tall men on tall women and having his agents keep an eye on any babies born in the realm that looked like they might become especially tall.
FW would have the giants paraded through his bedroom when he was sick, to make him feel better. He's supposed to have said that he was indifferent to the beauty of women, but tall soldiers were his weakness. ("But Ima get rid of all my son's boyfriends, because eww gay.")
Given the King's emotional attachment to them, the Potsdam Giants were way too precious to ever be risked in combat. They were strictly ornamental, to be paraded around for the King's visual enjoyment. This was good, as they were not especially good at fighting just because they were tall. In fact, there are stories that they were one of the less competent regiments. Some of them were likely tall as part of genetic conditions that came with other health problems.
Fritz thought this entire thing was ridiculous, a frivolous, pointless expense, and the moment he inherited he redistributed the giants into other regiments and stopped paying them just for being tall.
Now, how tall was FW, you might ask? Not tall. I've seen numbers ranging from 5'2" to 5'5". For Fritz, I've seen anywhere from 5'2" to 5'7". I'm sure none of this is helped by the lack of standardization of units. Napoleon himself got a reputation for being super short by dint of being 5'2" in French units, which is 5'6" in English units, and for hanging around tall soldiers that made him look shorter by comparison. So who even knows. But neither father nor son was anywhere near 6 feet tall, which I believe was the cut-off for the Potsdam Giants.
Soooo...FW was def compensating for his height, and possibly also very repressed sexual urges. Fritz: "Save money, admit your preferences. :-D "
Now, Fritz had his own costly royal obsession, which FW considered a frivolous, pointless expense, but with which we are much more in sympathy.
Namely, music. I know we've mentioned Fritz's flute-playing, art-patronizing, libretto-writing, musical-performance-dictating inclinations. But I'm not sure we've conveyed the level of obsession here. From the moment he took up flute playing in his teens until in old age he became physically incapable of it*, he played it every single day, barring the occasional acute episode of health that prevented him.
* My sources say it was when his teeth fell out. But I googled that, and everyone says it's possible to relearn to play the flute without teeth? I feel like either you can't get the same results, or else maybe his asthma played a role, because if it had been possible for him to keep playing, he would have. He was devastated when he had to put it away forever. He said he'd lost his best friend. :-(
Every day, he woke up at some ridiculous hour of Dark o'clock and started practicing the flute, did a bunch of paperwork, practiced some more, did more work of various kinds throughout the day, and dedicated the evening to listening to music and frequently performing chamber music for a small and select audience. He took his flute on campaign and practiced just as regularly in war as at peace.
After all this practice, I gather he was considered a quite proficient flute player. At any rate, people seem to have higher praise for his flute playing than his sonatas, concertos, symphonies, and the like, which seem to be considered good by amateur standards but far from anything to write home about. I'm not qualified to comment, but you can find performances of some of his compositions on YouTube and judge for yourself, if you care.
Dad, of course, thought flute playing was effeminate and that his son should only be interested in tall soldiers. So he forbade the whole endeavor. Meaning Fritz had to practice in secret. There's one lovely famous story that I think I've mentioned, where Quantz was giving Fritz a private lesson, and Katte was standing guard outside to give them warning as soon as the King approached. Katte and Quantz ended up hiding in a closet together while the King looked for evidence his son had been up to something. (This is why I raised an eyebrow at Mein Name ist Bach to see Quantz acting like he thought comparing Bach père to Fritz's father was bound to give Fritz warm and fuzzies toward Bach.)
At Rheinsberg, Fritz had to get his friends outside into a wood or a cave to practice music where no one could hear them. And once he became king, he recruited all the musicians he could get and never let them leave. (I feel like these facts are related, which is one example of what I meant by him reacting even more to chronic trauma than to Katte's execution.)
Throughout his life, Fritz chose many of his closest companions based on their musical inclinations. He and Wilhelmine used to play together, him on the flute and her on her lute. (As noted, she was a talented musician herself, and, as far as I can gather, the superior composer of the siblings--probably helped by the fact that her time wasn't divided with military campaigns and administrative micromanaging. You can also find some of her work on YouTube.)
One of the things Fritz bonded with Katte over was that they both played the flute. And Fredersdorf (one of the "six I have loved most") was a professional musician for the army, and he used to play the flute for Fritz during his imprisonment at Küstrin. In fact, Fritz's sympathetic jailers were so concerned about the treatment he was receiving that they told FW that they were afraid he would literally lose his mind under the
abusestrict regimen he was put under to rehabilitate him after Katte's execution, and reluctantly FW gave them permission to lighten conditions a bit. And the number one way you keep Fritz sane in prison is by letting him have some flute music.Side obsession: Fritz was a huge bookworm, as we've mentioned, and he kept having to accumulate secret libraries and hide them from Dad, who kept getting rid of them. During the escape attempt, one of Katte's responsibilities, along with "communicate with foreign envoys," "try to get an asylum offer," "acquire funding," and "take care of the Prince's valuables," was "get the secret library out of the country." Cause there's no point in fleeing for your life if you're not also bringing your books. MAN AFTER MY OWN HEART.
Re: Royal obsessions
FW would have the giants paraded through his bedroom when he was sick, to make him feel better.
omg FW
So I was interested enough in the flute question to do a bit of googling myself. I found this was kinda interesting:
http://www.fluteland.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=637&sid=baf0ee6fa761822ef273dc49d875e714&start=15
"It is impossible to generalize about removable dentures and blowing a flute. Typically a denture patient loses the alveolar bone over time. (This is the horseshoe shaped bone onto which the denture rests and is pasted.) The degree of resorption or bone loss is different in everyone depending on how long they have been without their natural teeth. Trumpet players have problems with upper dentures. Flutists have more of a problem with the lower denture. I can say that the lower alveolar bone is much more prone to resorption (or loss) than the upper. When we apply pressure to the lower lip with a flute we must rely on the stability of whatever it is behind the lower lip be it natural teeth, bridgework or a denture. If the alveolar bone is minimal or gone entirely, the denture "floats" and will move when pressure is applied with a flute. A flutist with this problem may undergo: 1. Alveolar ridge augmentation surgery.
2. Dental implants
3. Fixed Bridgework
This treatment plan will render a natural result allow you to perform natural flute licks."
So I can imagine that whatever was wrong with Fritz' teeth was in such a way that he actually couldn't play, or perhaps he would have been able to retrain in a perfect world but didn't know how (in the same thread are people who notice that their tone or technique has gone really wonky and aren't sure how to fix it). Gosh, I sympathize, though. I had RSI problems and had to put my violin away for a number of years, and it really sucked. And I didn't like it nearly as much as Fritz liked his flute.
(Man, it sounds even worse to play flute than violin. At least with violin you only have to worry about your fingers. Flute you have to worry about fingers AND mouth AND teeth!)
Re: Royal obsessions
So predictable, FW!
So I can imagine that whatever was wrong with Fritz' teeth was in such a way that he actually couldn't play, or perhaps he would have been able to retrain in a perfect world but didn't know how (in the same thread are people who notice that their tone or technique has gone really wonky and aren't sure how to fix it).
That all makes sense. I was just thinking, George Washington had false teeth, why couldn't Fritz get false teeth and keep playing? But yeah, I can see where it could be much more complicated than that. Poor baby. Losing your teeth, having to put up with 18th century medical treatment for all your health problems, and then not being able to play the flute.
I had RSI problems and had to put my violin away for a number of years, and it really sucked. And I didn't like it nearly as much as Fritz liked his flute.
Oh, no, that sucks. I'm so sorry. :-((( If it weren't for Kindle and the internet in general, I don't know how I'd survive with my can't-read-books back problem.
Re: Royal obsessions
Tangentially, this same bio (Asprey) gives the first plausible explanation of the peppercorns & mustard in the coffee that I've seen: they were meant to be medicinal. I had this total AHA and also DUH moment when I read that. Fritz always spent a lot of time thinking about his physical problems, had strong opinions on medical matters, and frequently tried to apply his own cures to himself (and suggest them to other people), irrespective of professional opinions. Spicing up his coffee (especially since he liked spicy food in general) makes so much sense as an 18th century medical treatment I can't believe this is the first time I've encountered this explanation. (It's kind of tragicomic watching biographer after biographer give Fritz a hard time about thinking he knew better than his doctors, and occasionally be forced to admit that while he wasn't often right, he wasn't necessarily better off listening to the professionals either, because this was the EIGHTEENTH CENTURY.)
I would still like to see documentary evidence that it was intended medicinally, but I always want to see documentary evidence, and I rarely get it, which is why biographies are basically novels in my mind.
Anyway, it makes enough sense that I guess I have to stop teasing him about his absurd tastes and possible bravado (which I did affectionately and admiringly, as someone with some absurd tastes and occasional bravado myself).
Re: Royal obsessions
speaking of musical relationships....
People: so, your kid is getting taller. Soon she'll hit puberty. The sight of a woman violinist is unseemly. Just saying.
Dad Schmeling: Maybe if I dress her in male clothing?
People: Works for a while, but are those breasts she starts to have? You're about a century too early for George Sand, mate.
DS: Gertrud, enough with the violin. You have a nice singing voice. Maybe become a soprano instead? I still need cash.
Gertrud: turns out to have a spectacular singing range of nearly three octaves, going from little g to three-stroke f (I hope that's the right expression in English).
German public: goes wild
Young Goethe: like many a fanboy, writes a "you're divine, be mine!" type of love poem to her; the poem isn't important, but there's a lovely pay off for this decades later
British and Italian public: goes wild
(Dad Schmeling: spends to much of her earned money he ends up in British debtor's prison until she gets him out of same)
Gertrud: debuts in Berlin, listened to by one of Fritz' courtiers who hastens off to Sanssouci
Old Fritz: okay. I still think German voices sound like my horse, but I'll listen to her auditioning for my opera.
His dogs: bark, since they're not used to a woman anywhere near him at this point.
Gertrud: is fearless and tackles the aria he selects, a bravoura aria from Graun's Britannicus called "Mi parenti, il figlio indegno"
Fritz: has her sing for him every night the next six weeks
Dad Schmeling: So, cash?
Fritz: You strike me as a jerk. 3000 Thaler for a two years contract.
Gertrud: 6000 per year and a life time contract, and independence, that's what I'm thinking. Bye, Dad.
Fritz: I sort of sympathize with the Dad issue. You've got a contract. But that name has to go. It's so... German.
Gertrud: Christ. Okay, how about Elisabeth Schmeling instead? That's my middle name.
Fritz: Not much better, but a bit.
*Elisabeth Schmeling continues to wow Berlin; among many fans is a young guy named Zelter, which only becomes a plot point later*
Elisabeth: *falls in love with Prince Heinrich's drop dead gorgeous Violinist Johann Mara, wants to marry him*
Fritz: He's my brother's boy toy. Normally I'd see this as hilarious, but I sort of like you. Don't do it.
Elisabeth: But I love him! He's the most beautiful man I've ever seen! You're just being a mean, controlling jerk, as per your reputation. I don't believe you.
Fritz: Not in this case I'm not. Don't do it.
Elisabeth: *runs away with Mara, marries him, is caught on route to England by Fritz' people*
Fritz: You have a life time contract, Missy. Ten weeks arrest for Heinrich's boy toy.
Elisabeth, now singing as Elisabeth Mara: I'm too young to make pointed remarks about people running away to England with their lovers and getting caught. Still. Can I at least guest star in a few German states?
Fritz: Mayyybeee. Okay. But none that belong to the Queen of Hungary.
Johann Mara: *spends Elisabeth's money, cheats on her*
Fritz: I'm just saying.
Elisabeth: He's still drop dead gorgeous and in my bed, jerk. Also, I'm off to Prague.
Fritz: Prague belongs to THAT WOMAN. You're fired!
Elisabeth: *gets rave reviews and audience adulation in Prague, Vienna, etc., then goes to Paris, where the French are divided between "Maraists" (her crowd) and "Todists" (fans of Luisa Modi, the other prima donna), goes to Britain and is fanboyed by the Prince of Wales, and has a distinct sense of deja vue as her husband gambles money away and has sex left right and center, until she separates from him*
Elisabeth: Okay, one more season in Paris to earn some money, then I'm off to Moscow. Haven't done Russia yet. It looks like an interesting place to retire. Also they'll pay me my star salary whereas here the younger crowd is eyeing my top position.
*one revolution and one Empire later*
Moscow in 1812: *gets invaded by Napoleon, burns*
Elisabeth: There go my retirement fund and my earthly possessions. FUCK YOU, WORLD CONQUERORS. Guess I'll have to go back on the road again. *goes back to England, Berlin, gives some concerts, teaches a bit, finally gets offered job as house teacher from Livonian family, takes it for lack of alternatives*
Zelter *has become Goethe's old age pen pal*: Dear JWG, recently heard the wonderful Gertrud Elisabeth Schmeling Mara has fallen on hard times. Remember how we loved her? I feel we should do something when you're both turning 83 this year.
Goethe: *writes a second poem, "To Madame Mara", which uses the same metre his youthful ditty did but says, in rhymed form: Your life was full of music, you are still the music of our lives; you've brought joy often when my life had been a drag, and now that we're both close to our final destination, I send love and adoration to you!
Hummel: *sets the second poem to music*
Zelter: *sends poem and score to La Mara in Livonia
(Goethe: *dies one and a half year later*)
Elisabeth Mara *dies two years later*
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Also, I mean, all of this is making me feel Fritz' antipathy towards MTis more and more hilarious. If Fritz were the tiniest bit het I'd probably hateship them. (But since he's not!) What did MT feel about Fritz? (Or, rather, what did she actually say about him?)
ETA: His dogs: bark, since they're not used to a woman anywhere near him at this point. is possibly my favorite line and I didn't even quite realize this was a real thing (of course this is) until reading mildred's later comment
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
* Which also contains an allusion to the suckiest condolence letter of all times.
Also,
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
...I am totally here for learning more about the Heinrich-Friedrich-Marwitz love triangle (more than is already in the linked post, that is, which is already hilarious).
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
You should refer to her as Gertrud, just to get back at Fritz!
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
*Younger line of the Wittelsbach line which rules Bavaria*: Is about to die out.
Joseph: Hm, which situation does this remind me of? Okay, Mum. Time to invade Bavaria. My first wife was the late Duke's daughter.
MT: WTF, Joe?
Joseph: Look, we don't want the Hohenzollern to dominate the Empire, do we? More than they already do. And modelling myself on Fritz has taught me preemptive war is utterly the thing to do. He'll respect me when we battle, trust me.
MT: *writes to Catherine in Russia* Dear Catherine, I really don't want another war with bloody Fritz, but I can't write to him directly. Pray tell him I'm offering a preemptive truce with you as the go-between, and be as good as to scare my boy Joseph into backing off.
Catherine: Dear Joseph, there's just one of the younger monarchs who manages the Fritzian mixture of being a reformer and a magnificent bastard, and it's not you. If you don't want me to invade as well, accept the pledge to negotiate this Bavarian succession thing by non-military means which your mother and I just arranged.
Dear Fritz, you don't want another war with MT now, do you? Partitioning Poland together is more fun. Pray agree to her preemptive truce of not fighting and the negotiation stuff.
Joseph: Mum, how could you! I'm threatening to resign as Emperor. Then where will you be?
MT: Still on the throne, with your younger brother as co-ruler. I told you. No more war in my life time.
Joseph: Fine. God, I'm so embarrassed. What must Fritz think of me?
Fritz: Accepts MT's Catherine-forwarded offer.
MT: *dies*
Matthias Claudius (North German poet - but not a Prussian, he was from Holstein, aka the dukedom of Catherine's assassinated husband): *writes a poem about her which gets published and reproduced in most German newspapers*
Sie machte Frieden! Das ist mein Gedicht
War ihres Volkes Lust und ihres Volkes Segen,
Und ging getrost und voller Zuversicht
Dem Tod als ihrem Freund entgegen.
Ein Welterobrer kann das nicht.
Sie machte Frieden! Das ist mein Gedicht!
She made peace! This is my poem.
She was her people's delight and her people's blessing,
and faced death as a friend
full of confidence and comfort.
A conqueror of the world can not do that.
She made peace! This is my poem.
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
MT: Still on the throne, with your younger brother as co-ruler. I told you. No more war in my life time.
That is some epic burn right there.
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
(I am having a great time imagining Joseph II from Amadeus going Mooooooom!)
there's just one of the younger monarchs who manages the Fritzian mixture of being a reformer and a magnificent bastard, and it's not you.
Wait, who?
A conqueror of the world can not do that.
Have I mentioned lately how much I love your translations? Also, this particular line seems a little pointed towards Fritz...?
ETA: And what is the new biography (is it available in English)? I've been thinking that I should read an actual biography of MT, now that I'm thoroughly infatuated with her :P :)
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Wait, who?
Catherine herself! Catherine was a big reformer and a magnificent bastard. Remember, at the partition of Poland, when MT was having scruples, Fritz wrote, "Catherine and I are simply brigands, but I wonder how the Empress-Queen managed to square her confessor."
Also, from Catherine's verse in the epic rap battles of history:
You're unbalanced like I unbalanced the European powers with the wars I waged.
I brought the Russian empire straight out the olden days and right into the golden age.
She wasn't called Catherine the Great for nothing! (Being a magnificent bastard often gets you called Great much faster than being straight out upstanding. :P)
And what is the new biography (is it available in English)?
Was wondering the same thing, for future reference when books and I are friends again.
A conqueror of the world can not do that.
Have I mentioned lately how much I love your translations? Also, this particular line seems a little pointed towards Fritz...?
ETA: It struck me that way too.
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Like, "Hey, we seem to have invaded Saxony in the course of my warmongering. That's cool, that's where Dresden and all the people who know the closely-guarded secrets of making the highest quality porcelain are!" obsessed.
So Fritz took advantage of this opportunity to introduce the porcelain industry into Berlin. After the war, he ended up buying the porcelain factory in Berlin and running it himself. You know, in his copious spare time. Says one biographer, "Given his concern to micromanage every other aspect of his state, it will come as no surprise to learn that Frederick was very much an activist proprietor, combining the roles of chairman of the board and chief executive officer. Although he could not always be there in person, he insisted on being sent monthly accounts and often visited the factory."
When did he find the time???! Coffee, peppercorns, and mustard, right. Got it.
Anyway, so I knew all this, and so today, because he was really complaining about Alexander and the porcelain, I thought I would google his factory. Then I found this little gem in Wikipedia:
"On 19 September 1763, Frederick II officially became the manufactory's new owner. He purchased the manufactory for the considerable sum of 225,000 thaler and took over the staff of 146 workers. He gave the business its name and allowed it to use the royal sceptre as its symbol. From then on, it was called the Königliche Porzellan-Manufaktur Berlin ("Royal Porcelain Manufactory Berlin") and became a model of how to run a business. There was no child labour, there were regular working hours, above-average incomes, secure pensions, a healthcare fund and assistance for widows and orphans."
I don't agree with his economics (forcing Jews to buy porcelain to keep profits high, not cool), but I mean, if you're going to run a country 18th-century semi-mercantilist style and use your royal power to acquire profits, I guess there are worse things than using said questionably acquired profits on good labor practices. I hope Wikipedia can be trusted here.
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
As for MT biographies, there were two new ones published in her anniversary year and I promise to report on at least one of them, but until I've actually read it, I can't rec or anti rec it to you two. As for availability in English: will check.
Meanwhile, since you asked about the Fritz-Heinrich-other Marwitz lust triangle, I still had the two more recent Fritz biographies from the library available I needed to check on some stuff, but alas neither of them provides more intel than online googling does. However, there's a more recent Heinrich biography out (by a female writer, both the Fritz bios are by male ones), and since this affair was presumably more important to Heinrich than it was to Fritz, I expect more detail there.
The two biographies - which I got via the Munich library's online loan on my kindle, and hence could name check - don't exactly go "no homo", but they do go "this is all not very interesting if you're not a gossipy sensationalist, and we're doing serious analysis of Fritz here, so a few lines, no more". Otoh, the longer biography did provide me with new intel on two fronts: EC's younger brother died apparantly in the same battle after which Fritz was told Wilhelmine was dead (he learned this on October 18th), burst into tears and had a not so minor breakdown. It doesn't exactly excuse the terrible condolence letter, but it does provide context for him being distracted by his own miseries. The biographer goes on to point out Fritz' utter emotional isolation post 7 years war, victory and miracle of the House of Brandenburg not withstanding. With Wilhelmine's death died also any chance of reconciliation with his remaining siblings, Heinrich didn't forgive him for August Wilhelm's humiliation and death, and most of the Rheinsberg era friends were dead (Keyserling) or gone, too. Then he provides a Maria Theresia quote about Fritz I wasn't yet familiar with, in a letter to Joseph, no less, who evidently had gone "yes, I know he's our enemy, but isn't he the coolest!" again. She writes in her response:
"Has this hero" - MT uses "heros", i.e. the Greek term, in her letter - "who has won such fame for himself, has this conqueror a single friend left? Doesn't he distrust the entire world? What kind of life is this that's left for him, having banished humanity out of it?"
And there I have a serious line for her at the fictional super secret summit of fiction.
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
1) You seem to have left out a word after "Wilhelmine."
2) We may be thinking of different battles and brothers here.
I'm thinking of Albert, at the battle of Soor, the one in 1745 where Fritz lost his dogs (among many other very important things and people) and had a migraine. If the missing word in your comment was "died", Wilhelmine died the day of Hochkirch, one of Fritz's major and very distressing defeats, in 1758.
Let me check if one of EC's other brothers died at Hochkirch. Yep, the youngest one did. So I think we've got two incidents getting conflated here. Fritz may also have written a terrible condolence letter about youngest brother in 1758, I would have to check.
And it's my bedtime, so I can't put together a chronology of Fritz's emotional isolation just now (maybe tomorrow), but yeah, 1758 was definitely a rough year, with his mother having gone in mid 1757, and Fredersdorf dying in January 1758, Wilhelm in June 1758, and Wilhelmine in October 1758 (on the day of Hochkirch, no less).
"What kind of life is this that's left for him, having banished humanity out of it?"
Yep, that's where the being buried by his dogs comes in.
Speaking of burials, did Fritz ever visit Wilhelmine's burial site? That we know of?
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
re: Fritz visiting Wilhelmine's burial site: I don't know. If he ever visited Bayreuth again after her death, he probably did, but just about the only occasion he might have done that I can think of is when the Margrave married again, Wilhelmine's (and Fritz') niece no less, Charlotte's daughter Sophie Caroline. (As if to make a point about Marx' statement re: history repeating itself from tragedy to farce, Sophie Caroline was supposed to marry Prince George of England before ending up with the Margrave to keep up the alliance. They didn't have a son, either, or any kid, the marriage lasted only three years and then he died. Caroline moved to Erlangen as her widow's seat and got chummy with cousin FW II, aka Fritz unloved successor.
Speaking of burials, when I googled I learned that when the German government re-buried Fritz according to his own wishes centuries after the first burial, the "minimal attendance" he requested consisted of a priest, the head of the House of Hohenzollern then (Prince Louis Ferdinand, now deceased; the new head is the guy who wants money from the German state and got a lot of bile about Willy and son of Willy in response) and Chancellor Helmut Kohl. I have no idea who attended FW's reburial, though...
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Interesting. Link?
re: Fritz visiting Wilhelmine's burial site: I don't know.
Okay, thanks. Reason I ask: I keep seeing people get so worked up about how Fritz dealt with Katte's death, including but not limited to not visiting his grave. And it just makes me angry how common it is for people to decide that if other people don't react to trauma according to the One True Way they've come up with, the traumatized person is doing it wrong. (Much worse example that my wife ran into in a documentary recently: insisting your daughter is lying about sexual assault, because when *you* were raped, *you* were crying and hysterical, but *she's* numb and in shock. SMH.)
Anyway, Wust is obviously much closer to Berlin than Bayreuth, and under his purview, but I was just wondering if maybe he simply preferred commissioning temples and putting up statues at Sanssouci to visiting burial sites, maybe that was much more therapeutic. But even if you DID go all the way to Bayreuth and avoided Wust because wow the survivor's guilt, that's STILL OK, Fritz. <3
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Lol, Joseph's Rational Fanboy thing cracks me up every time. But yes, absolutely, she has to say that in the SecretSummit. Maria Theresa is just so great, so emotionally healthy compared to... well, most people at that time, but particularly Fritz. With some reason, of course. Yay no-super-traumatic childhoods and romances :P
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Maria Theresa is just so great, so emotionally healthy compared to... well, most people at that time, but particularly Fritz. With some reason, of course. Yay no-super-traumatic childhoods and romances :P
Yeah, I mean, she may not hit a bunch of my specific buttons, but she's definitely got her shit together as a human being. Go, MT!
Re Fritz, though: we spend a lot of time talking about the ways in which his trauma fucked him up emotionally, but honestly, it's possible to look at it from the flip-side, and I do that a lot. As you know, Bob, I think there's a tendency to overestimate the extent to which the trauma shaped him. And regardless, even if, for the sake of argument, you agree with the historians about every single thing about him that's ever been attributed to the trauma...I continue to be fairly impressed by how intact he came out of all this. Compared to a lot of other people in a whole gamut of other traumatic experiences.
Part of this is genetic, of course, and his personality, but a huge part of it, I think, was that FW was an outlier. The number of people who agreed with FW and wholeheartedly joined in with the abuse are vanishingly small. Even Fritz's earliest influences, his mother and sister, were all, "Yeah arts! Yeah French!" Even the *society* in which they lived overwhelmingly disagreed with FW.
FW: Music is effeminate.
Male musicians in Europe: abound. Are respected. Are often in the military as well.
Etc., etc.
So Fritz was getting validated like crazy every time he turned around. The number of validation/mitigation anecdotes is astounding. Even Katte's executioner had to be ordered three times, and was apologizing profusely to Katte! And as a result (I would argue), a lot of Fritz's time as an abuse victim was spent waiting for Dad to die already so he could join the rest of the world in Sane Land. And that kind of ability to externalize the abuse makes a world of difference to your prospects as a survivor, and is why I start twitching every time I see a biographer use the word "broken" to describe what FW did to Fritz. Hurt? Absolutely. Damage? Sure, at this point we'd be arguing semantics. But break?
I maintain that Fritz came out of his abuse difficult, frequently abusive to others, and unhappy, but with a basically intact core. And that is part of why in the other comment I said his relationship with Wilhelmine was the best thing for both of them: as far as I can tell, they both came out with basically intact cores, and without that close relationship (and at least some of the positive aspects with their mother, amongst all her terrible acts of parenting), it would have been much more unlikely for both of them.
But fix-it fics for everyone!
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Oh, I agree with you that he came out functionally intact, although damaged and also verrrrrry bad at relationships. I do appreciate that view of all the external validation he was getting -- and also his relationship with Wilhelmine. (As I've mentioned before, my relationship with my sister is very close, and a large part of how we weathered parents that were (a) not nearly as bad as Fritz's and (b) not nearly as wacko as yours, but who still I think could have messed up either of us -- though particularly my sister -- rather worse. So I feel that very much.)
Re: speaking of musical relationships....
Does anyone else feel like author reveals are going to be a little bit redundant in this fandom? :P I mean, I know other people have written Fritz/Katte in past Yuletides, but, like, there are going to be some dead giveaways amongst the three of us. Anything that has at least four Classics references and only passing mentions of music is me, obvs. :P Secret summits are Selena. If anything turns up about Countess Orzelska, I'm going to have my suspicions about Selena. If it's a surprisingly specific fic about Fritz's dogs after the Battle of Soor...Etc. ;)
Re: speaking of musical relationships....