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This is totally too good to keep to myself: on my "I showed my family opera clips" post, ![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
mildred_of_midgard and selenak are talking about Frederick the Great (by way of Don Carlo, of course) and it is like this amazing virtuoso spontaneous thing and whoa
Things I knew about Frederick the Great before a year ago: he was king of... Prussia??
Additional things I knew about Frederick the Great before the last couple of days:selenak informed me last year that he and his dad may well have been at least somewhat the inspiration for Schiller's Don Carlos, and everything that goes with that: his dad (Friedrich Wilhelm, henceforth FW) was majorly awful, he had a boyfriend (Katte) who was horribly killed by his dad
Only a partial list of the additional things I now know about Frederick the Great (henceforth "Fritz") and associated historical figures due to mildred and selenak:
-Fritz and Katte's escape plan (which resulted in Katte's execution) was... really, really boneheaded. As boneheaded as opera plots! :P
-Katte was in the process of destroying 1,500 letters when he got caught (! puts all those letters in Don Carlos into perspective) (ETA: but also see mildred's comment below)
-Fritz wrote opera libretti and so did his sister
-Fritz decided to use himself as an experimental test subject to see if it was entirely possible to do without sleep via the application of coffee WITH PEPPERCORNS AND MUSTARD
-Fritz wrote a poem about orgasm that also reads as if he's never actually, like, had sex (although that was not in this post, it was in the comments to this one)
-FW apparently beat up George II when they were kids
-I am totally not even going to try to summarize the discussion about FW's "rationalized sadism" and sexual hangups and the reeeeeally bizarre Dresden interlude (go down a couple of comments for the really insane stuff)
-Fritz' sister Wilhemina wrote tell-all memoirs about her totally insane family which I am SUPER going to read now, watch this space
Also, there is apparently some subplot involving Russian fanboys that introduces an entirely new cast of people which I am dying to find out about
mildred_of_midgard and selenak are talking about Frederick the Great (by way of Don Carlo, of course) and it is like this amazing virtuoso spontaneous thing and whoaThings I knew about Frederick the Great before a year ago: he was king of... Prussia??
Additional things I knew about Frederick the Great before the last couple of days:
selenak informed me last year that he and his dad may well have been at least somewhat the inspiration for Schiller's Don Carlos, and everything that goes with that: his dad (Friedrich Wilhelm, henceforth FW) was majorly awful, he had a boyfriend (Katte) who was horribly killed by his dadOnly a partial list of the additional things I now know about Frederick the Great (henceforth "Fritz") and associated historical figures due to mildred and selenak:
-Fritz and Katte's escape plan (which resulted in Katte's execution) was... really, really boneheaded. As boneheaded as opera plots! :P
-Katte was in the process of destroying 1,500 letters when he got caught (! puts all those letters in Don Carlos into perspective) (ETA: but also see mildred's comment below)
-Fritz wrote opera libretti and so did his sister
-Fritz decided to use himself as an experimental test subject to see if it was entirely possible to do without sleep via the application of coffee WITH PEPPERCORNS AND MUSTARD
-Fritz wrote a poem about orgasm that also reads as if he's never actually, like, had sex (although that was not in this post, it was in the comments to this one)
-FW apparently beat up George II when they were kids
-I am totally not even going to try to summarize the discussion about FW's "rationalized sadism" and sexual hangups and the reeeeeally bizarre Dresden interlude (go down a couple of comments for the really insane stuff)
-Fritz' sister Wilhemina wrote tell-all memoirs about her totally insane family which I am SUPER going to read now, watch this space
Also, there is apparently some subplot involving Russian fanboys that introduces an entirely new cast of people which I am dying to find out about
Re: God save our Saxon cousins
I'm in parallel with reading all your comments reading Wilhelmine going "I really, really don't want to marry into this family" and... like... I see her point. FW may be worse, but when you combine her pretty clear Stockholm syndrome (I'm not sure that's quite the right term, but you know what I mean) and his being the devil she knows, I can't blame her for considering this not a good alternative.
Re: God save our Saxon cousins
I...honestly can't believe I didn't figure this out on my own, maybe it was because I read the book before I knew too much about psychology, but there's this one fairly well-known popular historian, Barbara Tuchman, who has this thesis that, at least in the 14th century and maybe in general, the past was such a terrible place because everybody was traumatized (think Black Death) all the time, and nobody was thinking clearly, and everybody was perpetuating trauma on everyone all the time, and it just makes *so much sense*. Because, like I keep saying, I would 100% have been perpetuating the cycle of trauma in their shoes. And in A Distant Mirror, she finds this one semi-obscure French nobleman, and goes, "Him! He acts like a sensible adult! Let's follow him as best we can through the limited documentary evidence."
ETA: Oh, and then he dies of the Black Death, according to Wikipedia. SEE?
Re: God save our Saxon cousins
No kidding. With escalating consequences for everyone else. I mean, WWII had a million more reasons than Wilhelm II.'s hangups, but they sure didn't help. Incidentally, since it's sort of "Our Insane Family: How It All Ended", I present to you Kaiserstur, last year's docudrama about how Germany went from a monarchy to a democracy near the end of mass slaughter, proving that Hohenzollern dysfunction played a role to the very end.
Here's how things went down for Wilhelm II., German emperor famous for his bombast, his hang-ups about his British cousins (his mother having been Victoria's oldest daughter), his hate-mongering speeches leading up to WWII and his utter lack of smarts and judgment, according to this docudrama (in which Wilhelm was played by Sylvester Groth, whom viewers of Deutschland '83 might recall as the most prominent Stasi official):
Wilhelm: It's October 1918, and I was just told by Generals Luddendorff & Hindenburg we're losing the war. How can this be? I'm feeling depressed.
Auguste Victoria (his wife, played by Sunni Melles): Never you mind. You're chosen by destiny. Don't give up!
Kurt Hahn (future school founder, but right now young good looking idealist employed by Max von Baden as his secretary and confidant, to his employer): Clearly, this is your hour. Only you can restore Germany's international reputation and negotiate an honorable peace.
Max von Baden: Kind of you to say so, Kurt, especially since this drama represents me as a weak-willed pushover only and doesn't even mention stuff like my work for the international Red Cross to ensure prisoners of all nationalities get medical care. But since I have no political experience whatsoever, how do we go about making me a good candidate for chancellor?
Kurt Hahn: We'll offer an alliance to the Social Democrats in order to save Germany.
Friedrich Ebert (leader of the SPD): Guys, I'm willing, but you are aware everyone hates the Emperor's guts by now, aren't you?
Max von Baden: I would never conspire against my cousin the Emp...
Kurt Hahn (hastily interjecting): Details, details! Saving Germany is all that matters, right?
Wilhelm II: What's this about me accepting Cousin Max as the new chancellor? Never!
Auguste Viktoria: He's gay and a tool in the hands of his Jewish secretary. Never!
Luddendorff & Hindenburg: Your Highness, we think you should accept Max von Baden as the new Chancellor.
Wilhelm: But why?
Luddendorff: Because we need someone to blame later. Also, I'm told I have a date with Wonder Woman in a parallel universe where I'm allowed to poison all other generals, so I'm off for now. Please sign this declaration.
Wilhelm: This is so humiliating. I hate my life. Ah well, a roaring speech to munition workers about how this is all England's fault will cheer me up!
Workers: *boo and hiss*
Wilhelm: Clearly socialist plants were in the audience, but I think I'll make no more public appearances. As in, ever. *has nervous breakdown*
Philipp Scheideman: Fritz, why the hell should we join a crumbling government? We'll only be blamed after the war. Also, as Social Democrats we oppose all these aristos stand for!
Ebert: Because you don't want us to have something like the Russian Revolution complete with bloody civil war, do you? Also, we're getting two ministeries, and one of them is for you. I'm cunningly not taking one so that as leader of the party, I can maintain my independence.
Hahn: Bad news, your highness. The Americans just said they won't negotiate for peace with you, either, as long as your cousin the Emperor is still Emperor.
Ebert: Look, I'm all for preserving the monarchy, but getting rid of Willy sounds awesome. Since his sons are no better, how about making his kid grandson Emperor and you the regent?
Auguste Victoria *makes a phonecall*: Max, you evil traitor, if you as much as think of taking the throne in any way whatsoever, we'll go public about you being gay!
Max von Baden: *has a nervous breakdown*
Luddendorff: I need to work on the Dolchstoßlegende about the army remaining undefeated. Therefore, I'm performing an U-Turn. Forgot what I said earlier. We don't want peace and will continue fighting.
Max von Baden: *has even more of a nervous breakdown, and a cold which might or might not have been a case of the coming Spanish Influenza*
Seaman in Kiel: *revolt*
Bavarians: *also revolt*
Rest of Germany: *rumblings*
Wilhelm: I'm off to army headquarters, and when I get back with my loyal soldiiers, you traitorous lot will all hang! That goes for you, too, Max!
Luddendorff & Hindenburg: Sorry, no can do. Marching on Berlin is out.
Ebert: Hahn, I swear, we WILL have a Russian Revolution here if your prince doesn't finally get off his butt and does something. Starting with declaring that the Emperor has resigned.
Max von Baden: But the Emperor hasn't... fine. Here's the public declaration that the Emperor has resigned.
Wilhelm: The Germans are a nations of traitorous pigs who don't deserve me. I'm off to the Netherlands, becoming a gardener.
Philip Scheidemann: Hooray! WE HAVE A REPUBLIC! I'M TELLING EVERYONE!
Ebert: Oh, for God's sake! How anti democratic is that? We'll have a people's vote about which state they want first. *takes off to visit Max von Baden again* Okay, if you want to save the monarchy in Germany in a parliamentary monarchy fashion, this is the very last moment. Declare your regency already.
Max von Baden: No can do. Cousins Willy and Auguste Victoria told me they'll destroy me by going public about my sex life if I do that. Sorry, Ebert, it's your turn. I'm declaring you Chancellor in my last act of government.
Ebert: ....I gess we have a Republic now. Also, I think I prefer being President.
All every well acted. As you may guess, my one problem is the presentation of Max von Baden. Not that I doubt he made his share of mistakes, but he's being presented so clueless and weak-willed that it's incomprehensible why Hahn and Ebert for the entire movie until five minutes before the ending think it's a good idea this man should rule the country in its worst crisis ever. And since he's the tale's sole declared homosexual character, with said sexuality explicitly used against him (which, btw, according to Machtan, the historian who consulted for this movie, Auguste Victoria actually did), this is doubly unfortunate. (Now you could argue that the movie doesn't let him do anything he didn't historically do, but they also don't mention, see above, things like his championing of the Red Cross (and the YMCA), which would have at least made it clear where his good reputation comes from. Also, there's a scene where he's getting a massage while the situation is getting ever more desperate which definitely falls under script and direction laying the "weak decadent" characterisation on even thicker.)
Other than that, though, I thought it was a well made docudrama focusing on an aspect in a key period of German history I hadn't known that much about, being more focused on what happened directly after the war was over. It was careful about the details (no one mentions Wilhelm's left arm, for example, but the actor never forgets Wilhelm couldn't move it). It's a story without heroes - though in terms of good intentions, Philip Scheidemann and Kurt Hahn come closest, plus Mrs. Ebert wins for sardonic comments every time her husband comes home with a new development -, but without villains, either, since the generals only show up twice very briefly and Wilhelm has already done all his damage before the war and is increasingly impotent within the chosen time frame. Otoh, no one (other than poor Max von Baden) comes across as one dimensional and you can get where everyone is coming from.
Re: God save our Saxon cousins
Re: God save our Saxon cousins