Here by Network, and intrigued by the post, not least because I come to the subject directly from the opposite direction!
there's a reason the opera is the version everyone remembers and the play isn't.
Not in Germany. The opera doesn't get staged very often. Otoh, the play is part of school canon. It has some of the most quoted and familiar lines in German literature. Which is why this summary of the key speech is sort of hilarious to me:
He has a really (really) long monologue to the King about Freedom and Reform
That is certainly... one way to describe it. Seriously, though, "Sire, geben Sie Gedankenfreiheit!" is one of those endlessly quoted lines, the speech was a showcase for generations of actors, and the entire scene, especially Posa's mixture of idealism and manipulativeness, is the cause of a thousand school essays.
Re: Flanders in general, now, Schiller had written a non-fiction book about the Spanish war in Flanders, and it shows in the play. Not that Schiller let history get in the way of good melodrama when it suited him, see also, the entire character of Carlos.
Re: the Philip-Inquisitor scene, that's another big set piece endlessly analyzed. Now it's been years since my last reading/watching, but " the conflict becomes whether he should have killed Posa himself or given him to the Inquisition" isn't what I remember. There's the basic "church or state as highest authority?" question (which btw was a German history thing far more than a Spanish history thing, our Emperors duked it out with various Popes endlessly long before Luther came along), but also whether Philip himself has retained/can retain a part of humanity not subject to the state/church. Delivering Carlos to the Inquisition at the end is the direct answer to this question. That last line of the play is one of whose crystal clear, sharp punchlines Schiller is famous for re: the endings of his plays, even more so in German: "Kardinal! Ich habe das meine getan. Tun Sie das Ihre." (Other famous in German examples are the ending of "Mary Stuart" - "Der Lord läßt sich entschuldigen; er ist zu Schiff nach Frankreich" - and the line from Don Fiesco - "Der Mohr hat seine Schuldigkeit getan; der Mohr kann gehen".
Which brings me to another thing. The Gutenberg translation you linked isn't bad, but it really can't render what Schiller does with language in German. It's both poetic, melodic (there's another reason why Verdi kept going back to Schiller plays as a source for his operas) and incredibly clear cut, elegant and precise, which isn't something many writers manage.
Whose tragedy it is: Posa, moral ambiguities or not, certainly is the hero of the play, but one favourite essay subject flung on German student is: "Is Don Carlos really Philip's tragedy? Discuss." (Certainly Philip is one of THE big roles for German male actors from middle age onwards, whereas playing Carlos is no big deal in anyone's repertoire.) Really old actors have fun creeping out people in the Inquisitor's two appearances, of course.
When I got around to the opera after years of knowing the play, I did enjoy it, but I also felt a bit let down by the simplification all around. I missed my manipulative Posa, politically keen Elisabeth, my Carlos who's not entirely an idiot (see: sword in front of King), and very much my Princess Eboli (hooray for morally ambiguous women!). And the first time I saw the opera ending complete with dead Emperor ex machina, I felt it was chickening out.
one might suspect that if his creation hadn't turned out so well, that he might have not loved Carlos so well...?)
Oh, most definitely. Posa struck me always as the "I could not love thee, dear, as much, loved I not honor more" type, only not "honor" but "freedom of the people". Which isn't to say he doesn't care for Carlos as an individual, and isn't ready to die for him, but I'm not sure he'd have originally gotten interested beyond feeling basic pity for the poor little rich boy if he hadn't seen the potential there, or that their friendship had become as intense if Carlos hadn't actually gotten interested in other people's welfare. Same, btw, with the Queen - he admires her so much because she DOES care, she has all those qualities. If she were simply Philip's unhappy wife, he would feel sorry for her, but admiration? Nah. And the irony that Philip reaches out to him on a human level (the last time Philip ever does that) is that Posa can't respond without thinking of the big picture - the downside of idealism.
no subject
there's a reason the opera is the version everyone remembers and the play isn't.
Not in Germany. The opera doesn't get staged very often. Otoh, the play is part of school canon. It has some of the most quoted and familiar lines in German literature. Which is why this summary of the key speech is sort of hilarious to me:
He has a really (really) long monologue to the King about Freedom and Reform
That is certainly... one way to describe it. Seriously, though, "Sire, geben Sie Gedankenfreiheit!" is one of those endlessly quoted lines, the speech was a showcase for generations of actors, and the entire scene, especially Posa's mixture of idealism and manipulativeness, is the cause of a thousand school essays.
Re: Flanders in general, now, Schiller had written a non-fiction book about the Spanish war in Flanders, and it shows in the play. Not that Schiller let history get in the way of good melodrama when it suited him, see also, the entire character of Carlos.
Re: the Philip-Inquisitor scene, that's another big set piece endlessly analyzed. Now it's been years since my last reading/watching, but " the conflict becomes whether he should have killed Posa himself or given him to the Inquisition" isn't what I remember. There's the basic "church or state as highest authority?" question (which btw was a German history thing far more than a Spanish history thing, our Emperors duked it out with various Popes endlessly long before Luther came along), but also whether Philip himself has retained/can retain a part of humanity not subject to the state/church. Delivering Carlos to the Inquisition at the end is the direct answer to this question. That last line of the play is one of whose crystal clear, sharp punchlines Schiller is famous for re: the endings of his plays, even more so in German: "Kardinal! Ich habe das meine getan. Tun Sie das Ihre." (Other famous in German examples are the ending of "Mary Stuart" - "Der Lord läßt sich entschuldigen; er ist zu Schiff nach Frankreich" - and the line from Don Fiesco - "Der Mohr hat seine Schuldigkeit getan; der Mohr kann gehen".
Which brings me to another thing. The Gutenberg translation you linked isn't bad, but it really can't render what Schiller does with language in German. It's both poetic, melodic (there's another reason why Verdi kept going back to Schiller plays as a source for his operas) and incredibly clear cut, elegant and precise, which isn't something many writers manage.
Whose tragedy it is: Posa, moral ambiguities or not, certainly is the hero of the play, but one favourite essay subject flung on German student is: "Is Don Carlos really Philip's tragedy? Discuss." (Certainly Philip is one of THE big roles for German male actors from middle age onwards, whereas playing Carlos is no big deal in anyone's repertoire.) Really old actors have fun creeping out people in the Inquisitor's two appearances, of course.
When I got around to the opera after years of knowing the play, I did enjoy it, but I also felt a bit let down by the simplification all around. I missed my manipulative Posa, politically keen Elisabeth, my Carlos who's not entirely an idiot (see: sword in front of King), and very much my Princess Eboli (hooray for morally ambiguous women!). And the first time I saw the opera ending complete with dead Emperor ex machina, I felt it was chickening out.
one might suspect that if his creation hadn't turned out so well, that he might have not loved Carlos so well...?)
Oh, most definitely. Posa struck me always as the "I could not love thee, dear, as much, loved I not honor more" type, only not "honor" but "freedom of the people". Which isn't to say he doesn't care for Carlos as an individual, and isn't ready to die for him, but I'm not sure he'd have originally gotten interested beyond feeling basic pity for the poor little rich boy if he hadn't seen the potential there, or that their friendship had become as intense if Carlos hadn't actually gotten interested in other people's welfare. Same, btw, with the Queen - he admires her so much because she DOES care, she has all those qualities. If she were simply Philip's unhappy wife, he would feel sorry for her, but admiration? Nah. And the irony that Philip reaches out to him on a human level (the last time Philip ever does that) is that Posa can't respond without thinking of the big picture - the downside of idealism.